friction modifier in a manual trans? Mazda mx-5 6mt

[91camarosRS]

so my daughter has a 2016 mx-5 with a 6mt, who lives two states away(I plan to do a full PM when she visits)

she recently had issues with it shifting. mainly into 1st and reverse.

I suspect bad synchro and first suggested an oil change to redline(I forget which exactly) but soon after, her clutch went out and Mazda ended up putting back in, I suspect, a factory fill.

a few months pass by and the issue is still here. she took her car back to Mazda and had them look over the whole car along with the trans. they had it for several days and first thought that it was a fluid issue. but would get back to her on this. they then said, after talking with "engineers" that a friction modifier should be added to help. I asked her to find out which, and they said Lucas stop slip.

is this a thing? adding a ATF stop slip to help with this? I planned to use motorcraft xtm5qs fluid(which we have ordered over the weekend), which is gl-4 and is highly regarded in these. should we add this Lucas on top of the fluid?

 

[Rand]

Just use the correct fresh fluid. you want less slippery fluid not random junk in there.

Reverse shouldn't be synchro'ed?

It might just be the used fluid and cold temps?

I wouldnt use lucas anything .. anywhere.

 

[Danh]

Take a look on Miata.net. I had and MX-5 and this site had lots of useful information. In particular, the Ford fluid you mention was recommended for the 6 speed manual as a way to reduce shift notchiness when cold.

 

[harbor]

Ford or Amsoil fluid with shift turret service.

 

[91camarosRS]

Just use the correct fresh fluid. you want less slippery fluid not random junk in there.

Reverse shouldn't be synchro'ed?

It might just be the used fluid and cold temps?

I wouldnt use lucas anything .. anywhere.

I didnt see issues with reverse, but i did drive it and notice 1st. Gets slightly better warm, but still has issues.

Things of note;
It had this issue before and after a fluid change at Mazda. (Apparently one change was before that at an oil change place, who knows what they used) The first issue might have been first year ND trans issues, mixed with age(near 100k). The second might have been using an off the shelf gl-5 is my thought.

So. I also don’t want some random junk in there. And trying to avoid a rebuild. Just wasn’t sure about the additive.

Take a look on Miata.net. I had and MX-5 and this site had lots of useful information. In particular, the Ford fluid you mention was recommended for the 6 speed manual as a way to reduce shift notchiness when cold.

I saw that too, which is why we ordered this. But the 2016 is a different trans? So there was a smaller sample group. And it’s not so much notchiness. But just not wanting to go into 1st. When i drove it, i had to go to 2nd at a stop, and then 1st and if that didn’t work, slip the clutch a little to make it move a hair(I’ve driven stubborn manuals too much apparently)

Ford or Amsoil fluid with shift turret service.

I already have the ford, so I’ll do that. And i heard about the turret, but that’s about it. I’ll need to look into it more. ND trans?

 

[MolaKule]

so my daughter has a 2016 mx-5 with a 6mt, who lives two states away(I plan to do a full PM when she visits)

she recently had issues with it shifting. mainly into 1st and reverse.

I suspect bad synchro and first suggested an oil change to redline(I forget which exactly) but soon after, her clutch went out and Mazda ended up putting back in, I suspect, a factory fill.

a few months pass by and the issue is still here. she took her car back to Mazda and had them look over the whole car along with the trans. they had it for several days and first thought that it was a fluid issue. but would get back to her on this. they then said, after talking with "engineers" that a friction modifier should be added to help. I asked her to find out which, and they said Lucas stop slip.

is this a thing? adding a ATF stop slip to help with this? I planned to use motorcraft xtm5qs fluid(which we have ordered over the weekend), which is gl-4 and is highly regarded in these. should we add this Lucas on top of the fluid?

A properly formulated MTF already has friction modifier chemistry added.

This is a typical case of blaming the fluid on either a design or wear issue.

The XT-M5 is 75W90 fluid. Are you sure this transmission requires a thick fluid such as this? Many of the later model MT's used a much thinner fluid.

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

Any chance there is air in the clutch line? Slave cylinders have also been known to be bad out of the box, master cylinders too I'm sure. I'd look into that before accepting a random bandaid fix. Crazy that the NDs are approaching 10 years old already.

 

[RooflessVW]

Any chance the clutch isn't releasing fully?

 

[91camarosRS]

A properly formulated MTF already has friction modifier chemistry added.

This is a typical case of blaming the fluid on either a design or wear issue.

The XT-M5 is 75W90 fluid. Are you sure this transmission requires a thick fluid such as this? Many of the later model MT's used a much thinner fluid.

When i looked up the factory fluid, its a 75-85 gl-4 iirc.

I believe it’s a wear/design issue personally. Just trying to see if this will help.maybe to prolong or made a rebuild not immediately needed. Especially for a “minor” issue. I think i read the 2016 has some issues with a trans.

 

[91camarosRS]

Any chance the clutch isn't releasing fully?

They looked that over and said that it is?

It’s only having an issue putting into first at a dead stop. When I drove it when I went to visit her, I noticed the same issue.

 

[91camarosRS]

Any chance there is air in the clutch line? Slave cylinders have also been known to be bad out of the box, master cylinders too I'm sure. I'd look into that before accepting a random bandaid fix. Crazy that the NDs are approaching 10 years old already.

Today is a possibility, but it was doing it before the clutch install and after

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

When you say the clutch "went out," what were the symptoms? Slipping or failure to disengage?

 

[91camarosRS]

When you say the clutch "went out," what were the symptoms? Slipping or failure to disengage?

Clutch was slipping. Mazda replaced it

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

Yeah sounds like a separate problem then, I'd suggest Redline, Motorcraft or whatever the community wisdom says these days. Then test drive it yourself and see if the problem is still there. If the transmission tends to be notchy when cold, the Miata folks will have discussed this issue ad nauseum on the forums/facebook groups.

(former 2000 NB Miata owner, from 2007 to 2022. The NBs had a lot of trans and oil discussions too).

 

[JRay’07]

Try bleeding the hydraulic side of the system. Also, make sure that your clutch pedal free play is within specification.

 

[MolaKule]

When i looked up the factory fluid, its a 75-85 gl-4 iirc.

I believe it’s a wear/design issue personally. Just trying to see if this will help.maybe to prolong or made a rebuild not immediately needed. Especially for a “minor” issue. I think i read the 2016 has some issues with a trans.

These MTF Lubes should function for that viscosity range (10-12cSt@100C):

HPL MTL Life 75W85

Redline MT-80

Amsoil MTF

Pennzoil Synchromesh

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Most LD Trans wont shift correctly with GL-5 in it. the MT rating IIRC is for non-synchronized HD trans.
General purpose GL-4 gear oil is almost non existent - at least around my little part of the world.
Valvoline MTF Syncromesh usually will work fine in a light duty trans if you can find it and it is dual rated to API GL-4

 

[91camarosRS]

Try bleeding the hydraulic side of the system. Also, make sure that your clutch pedal free play is within specification.

I believe they checked all that.

These MTF Lubes should function for that viscosity range (10-12cSt@100C):

HPL MTL Life 75W85

Redline MT-80

Amsoil MTF

Pennzoil Synchromesh

Any reason NOT to use the motorcraft we just got?

Most LD Trans wont shift correctly with GL-5 in it. the MT rating IIRC is for non-synchronized HD trans.
General purpose GL-4 gear oil is almost non existent - at least around my little part of the world.
Valvoline MTF Syncromesh usually will work fine in a light duty trans if you can find it and it is dual rated to API GL-4

Correct which is why i think someone might have put it in.

My thinking is the original issue was old fluid. Then when someone might have put gl-5 in, causing issues to not improve.



Then with all of this……

Why did Mazda themselves suggest stop slip in a manual?

 

[MolaKule]

Any reason NOT to use the motorcraft we just got?

No, it just may not be the correct viscosity speced for it.

Why did Mazda themselves suggest stop slip in a manual?

How do we know they actually contacted "engineers" for their opinion?

I say it's bunk. I think they wanted to add something to charge more and do an "upsell." This is when dealers give customers an excuse to add something the customer has not requested to order to "pad" their profits.

BTW, dealer techs and engineers are NOT lubricant formulators.

 

[91camarosRS]

So, if this doesn’t work, my next step was to maybe change AGAIN to mt-80.

And if THAT doesn’t work……then the synchros are bad bad.

Is there nothing we can add to help? A trans rebuild is inevitable?