Freedom Worx ... video about pre-filling filters

[sdowney717]

Science says pre-filling doesn’t matter… but my gut (and Grandpa’s ‘72 Chevy) disagree

Let me start by saying Freedom Worx deserves a medal for doing what most of us wouldn’t—sacrificing 12 hours and 50 filters to science . The oil analysis showing no difference in wear metals between pre-filled and dry filters is fascinating. But here’s where my inner grease monkey raises an eyebrow: If it truly doesn’t matter, why do heavy-duty manufacturers like Cummins explicitly tell you to pre-fill filters in their manuals? Are we really saying fleet mechanics rebuilding million-mile engines are just… superstitious?

The SAE papers cited about cold starts vs. oil pressure are solid gold . But let’s not ignore the elephant in the room: Oil viscosity matters more than we’re admitting. If cold starts are the real wear culprit (and they are), why are we pretending 0w-8 in a hybrid is the same game as 15w-40 in a ‘99 Powerstroke? Thinner oils flow faster, sure—but what about that first crank on a -10°F morning when your oil’s the consistency of maple syrup? I’ll bet my left lug nut that 5 seconds of “dry” flow with 0w-20 is less risky than 2 seconds with 10w-30.

Props to the SAE for noting that contaminants kill engines, not filter rituals. But let’s be real: If you’re dumping fresh oil straight into the filter’s outlet port (looking at you, YouTubers), you’re basically giving your bearings a glitter bomb . Maybe OEMs warn against pre-filling not because of “myths,” but because 90% of us can’t pour without spilling bacon bits into the galley.

Final thought: The video’s data is airtight… for this specific small block. But until I see the same test on a 6.7L diesel with 2 quarts of filter to prime, I’ll keep pre-filling my HD rigs and laugh when the 0w-16 crowd’s Camry starts rattling like a maraca at 150k.

I always have filled all oil filters. The video was clear that the new oil from a jug is cleaner than the oil in the engine, so then prefill the filters. Some people though are dumb enough to put old dirty oil into a new filter? Boggles the mind. I want my engines to develop oil pressure ASAP.

My 5.9 Cummins has a huge oil filter, why would I want to risk dry starts.

 

[sdowney717]

Bottled oil should be pretty clean, as some have previously pointed out. Bulk oil, depending on how it's stored could be contaminated to some degree depending on the situation. If someone can't pour oil into the center of an oil filter without contaminating it, they shouldn't be working on cars, lol.

OEM only cares about getting a car past the engine warrantee, they do not want engine life maximized, they want to sell new cars, new engines and have engines repaired at dealers.

 

[Patman]

OEM only cares about getting a car past the engine warrantee, they do not want engine life maximized, they want to sell new cars, new engines and have engines repaired at dealers.

That’s not really true. No car manufacturers are going to design their engines to only last just past their warranty period. Nobody would want their cars if that were the case. People return to the car companies that give them reliable cars and stop buying cars from the ones that give them trouble. It’s Business 101, make a great product and people will be loyal.

 

[sdowney717]

That’s not really true. No car manufacturers are going to design their engines to only last just past their warranty period. Nobody would want their cars if that were the case. People return to the car companies that give them reliable cars and stop buying cars from the ones that give them trouble. It’s Business 101, make a great product and people will be loyal.

You do realize you're not logically looking at this from a business POV. They just don't care about MAXIMIZING ENGINE LIFE. Now me as an owner who owns a vehicle for a long time, I do care about getting as much miles from an engine as I can. And the others, they trade in for new cars.

And how many miles do engine makers say is a reasonable number to expect before major repairs? It used to be decades ago around 80,000, then 100,000. Today maybe 150,000. All my engines I have right now are averaging 185,000 miles. And they still run good.

 

[sdowney717]

Engines makers today make stupid engine designs, like they did in the past too. One bad one in a lot of GM vehicles is the 6.2 v8 gas motor. I used to own 2 Vegas, and used to own 2 GM diesel passenger car from the early 80's. I have owned lots of dumb stupid engine designs. And you know people paid extra $1000 for those wonderful GM diesels. Vegas with aluminum cylinders like lawn mowers... FORD 6.0 and 6.7 diesel trucks, wow have awful those engines are. Today I refuse to buy anything GM

A nephew of mine has one of those Ford Diesel trucks and it sat in my parent's drive way 2 years before he had enough money to have it fixed at the dealer. And they also did a ton of work on it themselves. Stupid VGT Turbo was stuck on it too. I also refuse to own a Ford Diesel truck

 

[kschachn]

Engines makers today make stupid engine designs, like they did in the past too. One bad one in a lot of GM vehicles is the 6.2 v8 gas motor. I used to own 2 Vegas, and used to own 2 GM diesel passenger car from the early 80's. I have owned lots of dumb stupid engine designs. And you know people paid extra $1000 for those wonderful GM diesels. Vegas with aluminum cylinders like lawn mowers... FORD 6.0 and 6.7 diesel trucks, wow have awful those engines are. Today I refuse to buy anything GM

The problem with the Vega engine wasn’t the cylinders it was with the cooling system and head gasket. Early in development they had to work on proper boring of the A-390 silicon-aluminum alloy, but that was done before production began. The issues that plagued the engine were not associated with the linerless design.

The cooling issues and the head gasket problems were also corrected eventually but it was too late to really rescue the reputation of the engine.

Linerless aluminum engines such as the Alusil one on my BMW are extremely reliable in terms of wear. It’s just expensive and not too many manufacturers go to the trouble.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The 3rd+ Gen Coyote doesn't use cylinder liners, but the 1st & 2nd Gen do. The liner-less Coyote uses a plasma arch material application. I had a 74 Vega GT with a 4-speed manual. Almost had 100K miles on it when I traded it in for a Camaro, and it was still running good - didn't even burn hardly any oil, never had to add between changes. I made sure it never over heated, and ran Castrol GTX. That car actually gave me no problems. I've had more problems with other cars after the Vega. It was pretty innovative for the time, too bad it's early issues gave it a bad reputation.

 

[sdowney717]

The problem with the Vega engine wasn’t the cylinders it was with the cooling system and head gasket. Early in development they had to work on proper boring of the A-390 silicon-aluminum alloy, but that was done before production began. The issues that plagued the engine were not associated with the linerless design.

The cooling issues and the head gasket problems were also corrected eventually but it was too late to really rescue the reputation of the engine.

Linerless aluminum engines such as the Alusil one on my BMW are extremely reliable in terms of wear. It’s just expensive and not too many manufacturers go to the trouble.

They were awful designs. I rebuilt 2 of them and had them sleeved, then they were ok.
Aluminum block, cast iron head, too much differential expansion rate.

 

[sdowney717]

I had a 72 hatchback I bought for $100 and only 5 years old!
Wife was given a 75 notchback. Both engines eventually quit and had to be repaired as in rings etc....

The 2 GM 350 diesels, I kept fixing miner issues, they spewed oil out the breathers and made huge messes. The 85 Buick wagon eventually broke its crank. The 83 Delta 88, well it just blew so much blowby became very hard to start, It was a smoking fire breather barely had any power. People laughed at it and they were right. The fuel system seemed to collect humidity, the Roosa Master injection pump rusted on the inside. When you changed a fuel filter, you might not be able to start again. Both broke headbolts, both lost headgaskets. Neither made it to 100,000 miles. Wow were they noisy, one lost the harmonic balancer, rubber gave out and it clattered constantly. When they finally broke for good, junk yard towed both away without me looking back.

I still have a 1994 Buick Roadmaster wagon. Engine is poor design with the distributer located under the water pump. That one blew the tranny and I rebuilt it myself, cracked the drum where it meets a shaft. I don't' drive it as it has electrical glitches, like the cabin lights stay on all the time. But I have thought of selling it. Engine has 226,000 miles and still is good.

I have rightly learned to hate all things GM. My daughter bought a GM 7 passenger Acadia, 2012, trans blew up with less than 125000 miles. Cost them $1000 to tow home. I told them do not buy that car!

I almost got my wish when GM was going bust, but the government bailed them out, too many union people would have lost work.

 

[kschachn]

They were awful designs. I rebuilt 2 of them and had them sleeved, then they were ok.
Aluminum block, cast iron head, too much differential expansion rate.

Not at all. As I noted they did have problems with the head gasket (due to the iron head and aluminum block) but that was corrected. There are many, many vehicles on the road today with differential metals in the head and block.

 

[kschachn]

I have rightly learned to hate all things GM. My daughter bought a GM 7 passenger Acadia, 2012, trans blew up with less than 125000 miles. Cost them $1000 to tow home. I told them do not buy that car!

I almost got my wish when GM was going bust, but the government bailed them out, too many union people would have lost work.

Now we are getting to the core issue.

 

[sdowney717]

Not at all. As I noted they did have problems with the head gasket (due to the iron head and aluminum block) but that was corrected. There are many, many vehicles on the road today with differential metals in the head and block.

They all burned lots of oil

 

[sdowney717]

I also had a 1995 Saturn SL2, another lousy piston design. Burned tons of oil. But it kept running if you kept oil in it. And got good MPG.

The Saturn Piston designers deliberately put no oil return slots in the pistons. So the excess oil could not drain out, and clogged up the rings, got full of carbon. They claimed did not need them!

 

[OVERKILL]

I also had a 1995 Saturn SL2, another lousy piston design. Burned tons of oil. But it kept running if you kept oil in it. And got good MPG.

The Saturn Piston designers deliberately put no oil return slots in the pistons. So the excess oil could not drain out, and clogged up the rings, got full of carbon. They claimed did not need them!

Saturn had the same issue as Toyota: The return holes were too small (and too few) in the oil control ring groove and they plugged up with carbon, preventing oil from draining back, resulting in major oil consumption. The Saturn 1.9 only had 4 oil return passages, and they were located above the wrist pin on each side of the piston. This meant that a large portion of the oil control ring area would have a considerable distance for the oil to travel to drain, making it more liable to coke up.

 

[sdowney717]

Saturn had the same issue as Toyota: The return holes were too small (and too few) in the oil control ring groove and they plugged up with carbon, preventing oil from draining back, resulting in major oil consumption. The Saturn 1.9 only had 4 oil return passages, and they were located above the wrist pin on each side of the piston. This meant that a large portion of the oil control ring area would have a considerable distance for the oil to travel to drain, making it more liable to coke up.

When I rebuilt that engine, I drilled new oil return holes. Don't recall any slot at all.

Ok, but no slots to take oill away from behind the oil ring. Oil return reliefs, anyhow the oil could not drain and it burned in place.
This caused all their engines to be oil burners to the extreme. Like as much as a quart every 200 to 500 miles. I remember the discussion on the Saturn Fans forum about the thinking behind what they did, they deviated from what works and did something unusual and it was a fail

K

Thread 'Saturns burning oil?'

Dec 25, 2014

Why? Was it planned that way? Is it a design error?

• KevGuy
• Replies: 22
• Forum: Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Vehicles

These problems trend towards self-resolution when the engine blows up as in people forget to add oil continually.

 

[ZeeOSix]

They all burned lots of oil

My 74 Vega GT with nearly 100K miles on it when I traded it in didn't burn hardly any oil. I drove that car pretty hard too. I'm sure some didn't do as well as mine, but I also made sure it never over heated.

 

[sdowney717]

My 74 Vega GT with nearly 100K miles on it when I traded it in didn't burn hardly any oil. I drove that car pretty hard too. I'm sure some didn't do as well as mine, but I also made sure it never over heated.

I had one, wife's family had one, my parents had one, and they all were oil burners. Burned lots of oil, so much oil the light would come on when turning and you knew it needed oil. I eventually before rebuilding it, simply poured old oil of any kind into the motor. Old ATF, 80W gear oil, used engine oil from changes I did. Some guy at his house put out a 5 gallon container of used oil on the street. I picked that up and used it all up in the motor. When I rebuilt the engine, it was super clean inside, but the pistons were sludged up and oil control rings stuck together and were doing zilch. It burned so much I refused to buy new oil for it. I would just change the oil filter, and put in used oil.

I thought maybe mixing in 80w gear oil would help slow down the oil burning, but it did nothing, think made it worse. What did slow down oil burning was using ATF. I even ran it on nothing but ATF and it ran just fine. Car always got MPG around 28

 

[fueldelusion]

Just noticed my purolator oil filters say not to prefill on the box. Should i return and replace with ones that dont say I cant?

 

[Patman]

Just noticed my purolator oil filters say not to prefill on the box. Should i return and replace with ones that dont say I cant?

You should return them, but not for that reason. Return them because they are rock catchers

 

[kschachn]

I had one, wife's family had one, my parents had one, and they all were oil burners. Burned lots of oil, so much oil the light would come on when turning and you knew it needed oil. I eventually before rebuilding it, simply poured old oil of any kind into the motor. Old ATF, 80W gear oil, used engine oil from changes I did. Some guy at his house put out a 5 gallon container of used oil on the street. I picked that up and used it all up in the motor. When I rebuilt the engine, it was super clean inside, but the pistons were sludged up and oil control rings stuck together and were doing zilch. It burned so much I refused to buy new oil for it. I would just change the oil filter, and put in used oil.

I thought maybe mixing in 80w gear oil would help slow down the oil burning, but it did nothing, think made it worse. What did slow down oil burning was using ATF. I even ran it on nothing but ATF and it ran just fine. Car always got MPG around 28

Sure thing on the ATF. Kind of like the rest of the story.