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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I hope that all manufacturers come out of the fire as lean and functional enterprises.
Chrysler will be owned by Fiat, the UAW and the US government..just think of the USPS then add the UAW and then have some Europeans manage it all....that should be very functional.
I hope that all manufacturers come out of the fire as lean and functional enterprises.
Chrysler will be owned by Fiat, the UAW and the US government..just think of the USPS then add the UAW and then have some Europeans manage it all....that should be very functional.
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Guess people started to see all the items "Swept under the carpet"
Now they have been swept under the carpet. Too bad all us taxpayers keep trying to clean the [censored] under the carpet!
Here's a story for you... My neighbour has a '02 Cavalier that had problems with the shifter sticking in gear. He takes it to the dealer to be serviced. They have it for a total of 3 weeks on/off and charge him over $1400 in repairs and can't fix the problem. He gets frusterated and buys a used Accord, and puts the Cavalier up for sale. He can't sell it because it keeps causing the problem for the people buying it. At his wits end he asks my dad to have a look. We find a rubber bushing warn and causing the shifter cable bracket to be sloppy and move with the cable causing the jamming problem. We go to the dealer and try to purchase this bushing, we are told it's $53.00 (For a rubber bushing) and that they aren't available anymore. He can special order one from the US for an additional $26 shipping and it would take 3 weeks to get! For a 7 year old car. We ended up fixing it using a piece of rubber hose and a nylon washer. Problem fixed. He hasn't had the problem since. He returned to the dealer to fight them for some of his $1400 back and they basically told him that they didn't think that was the problem and that it could have happened after he left the dealer. He explained that the problem hadn't returned and that he had put on a few thousand KM's since it was repaired by my dad and they gave him the cold shoulder. He walked out agrily and muttered the words "Then you wonder why you are going bankrupt!" He's right in my opinion for so many reasons...
It's this that is sinking GM. Poor quality cars, over paid corporate fat and lack of service at dealerships.
BYE BYE GM I SAY!
Now they have been swept under the carpet. Too bad all us taxpayers keep trying to clean the [censored] under the carpet!
Here's a story for you... My neighbour has a '02 Cavalier that had problems with the shifter sticking in gear. He takes it to the dealer to be serviced. They have it for a total of 3 weeks on/off and charge him over $1400 in repairs and can't fix the problem. He gets frusterated and buys a used Accord, and puts the Cavalier up for sale. He can't sell it because it keeps causing the problem for the people buying it. At his wits end he asks my dad to have a look. We find a rubber bushing warn and causing the shifter cable bracket to be sloppy and move with the cable causing the jamming problem. We go to the dealer and try to purchase this bushing, we are told it's $53.00 (For a rubber bushing) and that they aren't available anymore. He can special order one from the US for an additional $26 shipping and it would take 3 weeks to get! For a 7 year old car. We ended up fixing it using a piece of rubber hose and a nylon washer. Problem fixed. He hasn't had the problem since. He returned to the dealer to fight them for some of his $1400 back and they basically told him that they didn't think that was the problem and that it could have happened after he left the dealer. He explained that the problem hadn't returned and that he had put on a few thousand KM's since it was repaired by my dad and they gave him the cold shoulder. He walked out agrily and muttered the words "Then you wonder why you are going bankrupt!" He's right in my opinion for so many reasons...
It's this that is sinking GM. Poor quality cars, over paid corporate fat and lack of service at dealerships.
BYE BYE GM I SAY!
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Let me get this straight:
- The old version was bad, so the new version must also be bad
- Ford should be left alone in the segment because their car was there first
- It's okay to beat up on GM because they "asked for it"
- Ford cars are more moral than GM cars
That pretty much sums it up to me....
Let me get this straight:
- The old version was bad, so the new version must also be bad
- Ford should be left alone in the segment because their car was there first
- It's okay to beat up on GM because they "asked for it"
- Ford cars are more moral than GM cars
That pretty much sums it up to me....
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
Guess people started to see all the items "Swept under the carpet"
Now they have been swept under the carpet. Too bad all us taxpayers keep trying to clean the [censored] under the carpet!
Here's a story for you... My neighbour has a '02 Cavalier that had problems with the shifter sticking in gear. He takes it to the dealer to be serviced. They have it for a total of 3 weeks on/off and charge him over $1400 in repairs and can't fix the problem. He gets frusterated and buys a used Accord, and puts the Cavalier up for sale. He can't sell it because it keeps causing the problem for the people buying it. At his wits end he asks my dad to have a look. We find a rubber bushing warn and causing the shifter cable bracket to be sloppy and move with the cable causing the jamming problem. We go to the dealer and try to purchase this bushing, we are told it's $53.00 (For a rubber bushing) and that they aren't available anymore. He can special order one from the US for an additional $26 shipping and it would take 3 weeks to get! For a 7 year old car. We ended up fixing it using a piece of rubber hose and a nylon washer. Problem fixed. He hasn't had the problem since. He returned to the dealer to fight them for some of his $1400 back and they basically told him that they didn't think that was the problem and that it could have happened after he left the dealer. He explained that the problem hadn't returned and that he had put on a few thousand KM's since it was repaired by my dad and they gave him the cold shoulder. He walked out agrily and muttered the words "Then you wonder why you are going bankrupt!" He's right in my opinion for so many reasons...
It's this that is sinking GM. Poor quality cars, over paid corporate fat and lack of service at dealerships.
BYE BYE GM I SAY!
Too bad your buddy didn't have the brains enough to take the dealer to court. Sue them in small claims court and get some/all of the money back.
Also it too bad he didn't realize the dealer didn't know how to fix the car within a reasonable timeframe. After a few days he should have taken the car to another dealer.
There was a lot of ways he could have resolved this problem to his satisfaction without draining his wallet. He took the easy way out which is to blame a mfr for one problem and an incompetent dealer. That's the consumer's right and people do it every day but it does not mean it's the smart choice.
Guess people started to see all the items "Swept under the carpet"
Now they have been swept under the carpet. Too bad all us taxpayers keep trying to clean the [censored] under the carpet!
Here's a story for you... My neighbour has a '02 Cavalier that had problems with the shifter sticking in gear. He takes it to the dealer to be serviced. They have it for a total of 3 weeks on/off and charge him over $1400 in repairs and can't fix the problem. He gets frusterated and buys a used Accord, and puts the Cavalier up for sale. He can't sell it because it keeps causing the problem for the people buying it. At his wits end he asks my dad to have a look. We find a rubber bushing warn and causing the shifter cable bracket to be sloppy and move with the cable causing the jamming problem. We go to the dealer and try to purchase this bushing, we are told it's $53.00 (For a rubber bushing) and that they aren't available anymore. He can special order one from the US for an additional $26 shipping and it would take 3 weeks to get! For a 7 year old car. We ended up fixing it using a piece of rubber hose and a nylon washer. Problem fixed. He hasn't had the problem since. He returned to the dealer to fight them for some of his $1400 back and they basically told him that they didn't think that was the problem and that it could have happened after he left the dealer. He explained that the problem hadn't returned and that he had put on a few thousand KM's since it was repaired by my dad and they gave him the cold shoulder. He walked out agrily and muttered the words "Then you wonder why you are going bankrupt!" He's right in my opinion for so many reasons...
It's this that is sinking GM. Poor quality cars, over paid corporate fat and lack of service at dealerships.
BYE BYE GM I SAY!
Too bad your buddy didn't have the brains enough to take the dealer to court. Sue them in small claims court and get some/all of the money back.
Also it too bad he didn't realize the dealer didn't know how to fix the car within a reasonable timeframe. After a few days he should have taken the car to another dealer.
There was a lot of ways he could have resolved this problem to his satisfaction without draining his wallet. He took the easy way out which is to blame a mfr for one problem and an incompetent dealer. That's the consumer's right and people do it every day but it does not mean it's the smart choice.
All dealers should be the same. Why is it my neighbours fault and not the dealership. Where's there brains? Why didn't they call someone in Detroit, or offer him a courtesy car while they figured it out instead of trying to sell him part after part that he didn't need? I could even understand if they were willing to split the difference, but to give him the cold shoulder?
No Sir... This is a brand problem, because as far as I'm concerned they learn this attitude and poor service technique from the top!
You keep drinking the GM Koolaid!
No Sir... This is a brand problem, because as far as I'm concerned they learn this attitude and poor service technique from the top!
You keep drinking the GM Koolaid!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LTVibe
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
This did catch my eye though:
Originally Posted By: PT1
about 1,400 of the V-8 equipped 2010 Camaros and 300 have been sold.
Ouch.
That "ouch" may not last long:
GM's Oshawa Plant Increases Production To Meet Camaro Demand
Quote:
GM has said the back-order for the new Camaro is up to 19,000, and there are reports that the waiting time for delivery, depending on the region and model, runs to at least three months. Once it hits peak production of 440 Camaros a day at the end of May, the Oshawa plant will be producing 2,200 a week.
But
Quote:
Mustang sales hit an astounding 419,000 in its first 12 months on the market, and topped the 1-million mark in the first two years, shattering the sales records of any single model in the history of the automobile. Mustang leads the nearly $1-billion aftermarket parts and accessories industry as the most personalized vehicle of all time, and has been recognized by SEMA as the most accessory-friendly new vehicle.
THAT vehicle is the problem that the F-bodies had before. And will continue to have. That is why GM discontinued them! I still don't understand the logic of bringing back a car that has never sold well. And then doing it in an economy such as this.......
you do know it takes years to design a car right. In the range of 3 to 5 years. Also all the money spent designing the car is a sunk cost. So if you are close to finishing you are better off finishing it and recouping some cost from sales than you are to ax it and lose all your sunk cost.
Originally Posted By: LTVibe
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
This did catch my eye though:
Originally Posted By: PT1
about 1,400 of the V-8 equipped 2010 Camaros and 300 have been sold.
Ouch.
That "ouch" may not last long:
GM's Oshawa Plant Increases Production To Meet Camaro Demand
Quote:
GM has said the back-order for the new Camaro is up to 19,000, and there are reports that the waiting time for delivery, depending on the region and model, runs to at least three months. Once it hits peak production of 440 Camaros a day at the end of May, the Oshawa plant will be producing 2,200 a week.
But
Quote:
Mustang sales hit an astounding 419,000 in its first 12 months on the market, and topped the 1-million mark in the first two years, shattering the sales records of any single model in the history of the automobile. Mustang leads the nearly $1-billion aftermarket parts and accessories industry as the most personalized vehicle of all time, and has been recognized by SEMA as the most accessory-friendly new vehicle.
THAT vehicle is the problem that the F-bodies had before. And will continue to have. That is why GM discontinued them! I still don't understand the logic of bringing back a car that has never sold well. And then doing it in an economy such as this.......
you do know it takes years to design a car right. In the range of 3 to 5 years. Also all the money spent designing the car is a sunk cost. So if you are close to finishing you are better off finishing it and recouping some cost from sales than you are to ax it and lose all your sunk cost.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: wapacz
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LTVibe
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
This did catch my eye though:
Originally Posted By: PT1
about 1,400 of the V-8 equipped 2010 Camaros and 300 have been sold.
Ouch.
That "ouch" may not last long:
GM's Oshawa Plant Increases Production To Meet Camaro Demand
Quote:
GM has said the back-order for the new Camaro is up to 19,000, and there are reports that the waiting time for delivery, depending on the region and model, runs to at least three months. Once it hits peak production of 440 Camaros a day at the end of May, the Oshawa plant will be producing 2,200 a week.
But
Quote:
Mustang sales hit an astounding 419,000 in its first 12 months on the market, and topped the 1-million mark in the first two years, shattering the sales records of any single model in the history of the automobile. Mustang leads the nearly $1-billion aftermarket parts and accessories industry as the most personalized vehicle of all time, and has been recognized by SEMA as the most accessory-friendly new vehicle.
THAT vehicle is the problem that the F-bodies had before. And will continue to have. That is why GM discontinued them! I still don't understand the logic of bringing back a car that has never sold well. And then doing it in an economy such as this.......
you do know it takes years to design a car right. In the range of 3 to 5 years. Also all the money spent designing the car is a sunk cost. So if you are close to finishing you are better off finishing it and recouping some cost from sales than you are to ax it and lose all your sunk cost.
Yes, but the car's predecessor wasn't selling, they were already well aware of what happened when Ford tried to do the same thing with the T-bird. They've been losing money and market share for well over a decade, which easily encapsulates the time-frame in which this car was developed.
Given those details, I fail to see how it was logical to pursue the development of this car in the first place!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LTVibe
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
This did catch my eye though:
Originally Posted By: PT1
about 1,400 of the V-8 equipped 2010 Camaros and 300 have been sold.
Ouch.
That "ouch" may not last long:
GM's Oshawa Plant Increases Production To Meet Camaro Demand
Quote:
GM has said the back-order for the new Camaro is up to 19,000, and there are reports that the waiting time for delivery, depending on the region and model, runs to at least three months. Once it hits peak production of 440 Camaros a day at the end of May, the Oshawa plant will be producing 2,200 a week.
But
Quote:
Mustang sales hit an astounding 419,000 in its first 12 months on the market, and topped the 1-million mark in the first two years, shattering the sales records of any single model in the history of the automobile. Mustang leads the nearly $1-billion aftermarket parts and accessories industry as the most personalized vehicle of all time, and has been recognized by SEMA as the most accessory-friendly new vehicle.
THAT vehicle is the problem that the F-bodies had before. And will continue to have. That is why GM discontinued them! I still don't understand the logic of bringing back a car that has never sold well. And then doing it in an economy such as this.......
you do know it takes years to design a car right. In the range of 3 to 5 years. Also all the money spent designing the car is a sunk cost. So if you are close to finishing you are better off finishing it and recouping some cost from sales than you are to ax it and lose all your sunk cost.
Yes, but the car's predecessor wasn't selling, they were already well aware of what happened when Ford tried to do the same thing with the T-bird. They've been losing money and market share for well over a decade, which easily encapsulates the time-frame in which this car was developed.
Given those details, I fail to see how it was logical to pursue the development of this car in the first place!
StevieC,
Cavalier, Cadillac or Corvette....
its just another Chevy to those grease monkeys that proudly wear that silly 'ASE Certified' patch but can't fix a 99 cent rubber bushing.
Yes, GM should close their doors and close them ASAP !!!!
Cavalier, Cadillac or Corvette....
its just another Chevy to those grease monkeys that proudly wear that silly 'ASE Certified' patch but can't fix a 99 cent rubber bushing.
Yes, GM should close their doors and close them ASAP !!!!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Yes, but the car's predecessor wasn't selling, they were already well aware of what happened when Ford tried to do the same thing with the T-bird. They've been losing money and market share for well over a decade, which easily encapsulates the time-frame in which this car was developed.
Given those details, I fail to see how it was logical to pursue the development of this car in the first place!
The important point you're missing is that the F-body they axed in 2002 was a totally different, and completely inferior product to the one they're building now. It wasn't selling because it was an outdated piece of junk that everyone was tired of looking at. They couldn't conceive any more ways to [censored] it, so they killed it.
Chevy does market studies just like any other major corporation, and found a hole in the market that they can use one of their existing platforms to fill. The new Camaro will sell based on what it offers, along with some added nostalgia, which is, lets face it - is what's selling the Mustang and Challenger. It has nothing in common (thankfully) with the 2002 Camaro, which reached the end of its usefulness due to several wrong turns the car's design had taken since 1982. If they do it right, there is room in the world for a new Camaro. Why should GM sit back and let Ford have the monopoly in a growing segment? Yes, I said growing. The baby boomers', and even the Gen-Xers' kids are grown and they're selling their Accords and Camrys and shopping for 2-door nostalgia-mobiles. I think GM has done a good job considering the circumstances they find themselves in. People here are waiting in line to buy one.
Yes, but the car's predecessor wasn't selling, they were already well aware of what happened when Ford tried to do the same thing with the T-bird. They've been losing money and market share for well over a decade, which easily encapsulates the time-frame in which this car was developed.
Given those details, I fail to see how it was logical to pursue the development of this car in the first place!
The important point you're missing is that the F-body they axed in 2002 was a totally different, and completely inferior product to the one they're building now. It wasn't selling because it was an outdated piece of junk that everyone was tired of looking at. They couldn't conceive any more ways to [censored] it, so they killed it.
Chevy does market studies just like any other major corporation, and found a hole in the market that they can use one of their existing platforms to fill. The new Camaro will sell based on what it offers, along with some added nostalgia, which is, lets face it - is what's selling the Mustang and Challenger. It has nothing in common (thankfully) with the 2002 Camaro, which reached the end of its usefulness due to several wrong turns the car's design had taken since 1982. If they do it right, there is room in the world for a new Camaro. Why should GM sit back and let Ford have the monopoly in a growing segment? Yes, I said growing. The baby boomers', and even the Gen-Xers' kids are grown and they're selling their Accords and Camrys and shopping for 2-door nostalgia-mobiles. I think GM has done a good job considering the circumstances they find themselves in. People here are waiting in line to buy one.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: PT1
You mean just because they haven't made a profit since 2004? And now we are asked to pay to keep them afloat?
What the heck does this have to do with how they are handling the recall?
They are under so much financial stress they are overlooking all kinds of design issues and pushing cars out the door. They just posted another huge $6 billion loss from Q1 2009 today. Ford's quality is going up while GM's is going down.
Originally Posted By: PT1
You mean just because they haven't made a profit since 2004? And now we are asked to pay to keep them afloat?
What the heck does this have to do with how they are handling the recall?
They are under so much financial stress they are overlooking all kinds of design issues and pushing cars out the door. They just posted another huge $6 billion loss from Q1 2009 today. Ford's quality is going up while GM's is going down.
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Originally Posted By: bretfraz!
Too bad your buddy didn't have the brains enough to take the dealer to court. Sue them in small claims court and get some/all of the money back.
Why in the world should a consumer have to resort to this when there are so many other high quality products on the market that are not being propped up by the government. GM denied me 2 major warranty issues on my last truck (engine & differential failures) that would have cost me $13,500 to repair on a 3 year old vehicle. I traded it in at a $5,000 loss in total disgust on a new Toyota 4Runner.
Too bad your buddy didn't have the brains enough to take the dealer to court. Sue them in small claims court and get some/all of the money back.
Why in the world should a consumer have to resort to this when there are so many other high quality products on the market that are not being propped up by the government. GM denied me 2 major warranty issues on my last truck (engine & differential failures) that would have cost me $13,500 to repair on a 3 year old vehicle. I traded it in at a $5,000 loss in total disgust on a new Toyota 4Runner.
PT1 That's your fault, you should have gone to another dealership and sued them in court for the full value of your GM product.
You just don't get it... Bretfraz is 100% right, it's our fault!
What is this guy smoking? (Bretfraz)
You just don't get it... Bretfraz is 100% right, it's our fault!
What is this guy smoking? (Bretfraz)
Originally Posted By: StevieC
PT1 That's your fault, you should have gone to another dealership and sued them in court for the full value of your GM product.
You just don't get it... Bretfraz is 100% right, it's our fault!
What is this guy smoking? (Bretfraz)
I went to 4 GMC dealerships...all the way to the Regional Zone manager and got a letter saying they would repair the engine if it failed completely in 100k but it was still running.(on a $56,000 top of the line Denali) They refused the repair on the front AWD diff as it was about 500 miles out of warranty even though the gear oil had been changed by them at 5,000 with the GM synthetic and the tech noted metal shavings on the magnet. My attorney estimated it would cost about $8,000 in litigation to sue them as they have a long history of stretching out product warranty lawsuits. SO, out of total disgust I traded it in and took a financial bath. This is even though I am a documented loyal GM customer with the GM card etc etc. I am done with them. Well not 100% as I will be paying taxes for years to prop them up until they go Chapter 11.
FWIW, I grew up in a GM family.
PT1 That's your fault, you should have gone to another dealership and sued them in court for the full value of your GM product.
You just don't get it... Bretfraz is 100% right, it's our fault!
What is this guy smoking? (Bretfraz)
I went to 4 GMC dealerships...all the way to the Regional Zone manager and got a letter saying they would repair the engine if it failed completely in 100k but it was still running.(on a $56,000 top of the line Denali) They refused the repair on the front AWD diff as it was about 500 miles out of warranty even though the gear oil had been changed by them at 5,000 with the GM synthetic and the tech noted metal shavings on the magnet. My attorney estimated it would cost about $8,000 in litigation to sue them as they have a long history of stretching out product warranty lawsuits. SO, out of total disgust I traded it in and took a financial bath. This is even though I am a documented loyal GM customer with the GM card etc etc. I am done with them. Well not 100% as I will be paying taxes for years to prop them up until they go Chapter 11.
FWIW, I grew up in a GM family.
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Originally Posted By: PT1
I went to 4 GMC dealerships...all the way to the Regional Zone manager and got a letter saying they would repair the engine if it failed completely in 100k but it was still running.(on a $56,000 top of the line Denali) They refused the repair on the front AWD diff as it was about 500 miles out of warranty even though the gear oil had been changed by them at 5,000 with the GM synthetic and the tech noted metal shavings on the magnet. My attorney estimated it would cost about $8,000 in litigation to sue them as they have a long history of stretching out product warranty lawsuits. SO, out of total disgust I traded it in and took a financial bath. This is even though I am a documented loyal GM customer with the GM card etc etc. I am done with them. Well not 100% as I will be paying taxes for years to prop them up until they go Chapter 11.
FWIW, I grew up in a GM family.
It's stories like this and my neighbors and the ones echoed by a lot of previous GM customers (myself included), that have caused them this Financial trouble. People vote with their wallets today, and with money being so tight, your dollar has to go further. IMO they have taken it to the Manufacturers that give them this mileage!
Sad that we can't compete with companies from overseas...
I went to 4 GMC dealerships...all the way to the Regional Zone manager and got a letter saying they would repair the engine if it failed completely in 100k but it was still running.(on a $56,000 top of the line Denali) They refused the repair on the front AWD diff as it was about 500 miles out of warranty even though the gear oil had been changed by them at 5,000 with the GM synthetic and the tech noted metal shavings on the magnet. My attorney estimated it would cost about $8,000 in litigation to sue them as they have a long history of stretching out product warranty lawsuits. SO, out of total disgust I traded it in and took a financial bath. This is even though I am a documented loyal GM customer with the GM card etc etc. I am done with them. Well not 100% as I will be paying taxes for years to prop them up until they go Chapter 11.
FWIW, I grew up in a GM family.
It's stories like this and my neighbors and the ones echoed by a lot of previous GM customers (myself included), that have caused them this Financial trouble. People vote with their wallets today, and with money being so tight, your dollar has to go further. IMO they have taken it to the Manufacturers that give them this mileage!
Sad that we can't compete with companies from overseas...
Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Yes, but the car's predecessor wasn't selling, they were already well aware of what happened when Ford tried to do the same thing with the T-bird. They've been losing money and market share for well over a decade, which easily encapsulates the time-frame in which this car was developed.
Given those details, I fail to see how it was logical to pursue the development of this car in the first place!
The important point you're missing is that the F-body they axed in 2002 was a totally different, and completely inferior product to the one they're building now. It wasn't selling because it was an outdated piece of junk that everyone was tired of looking at. They couldn't conceive any more ways to [censored] it, so they killed it.
... It has nothing in common (thankfully) with the 2002 Camaro, which reached the end of its usefulness due to several wrong turns the car's design had taken since 1982.
the camaro from '82 to '92 was the 3rd gen. the 4th gen car ('93 to '02) was a completely new platform. the new LS engine family was introduced in '98.
so, there WERE changes, many of them, from '82 to '02. and the new 5th gen does have much in common w/ the 4th gen, namely, the drivetrain. the new LS3 is the current incarnation of the LS1 from '98.
the LS equipped 4th gens are a great perfomance deal, can be had cheap, respond well to mods, and have proved themselves in road racing and drag racing.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Yes, but the car's predecessor wasn't selling, they were already well aware of what happened when Ford tried to do the same thing with the T-bird. They've been losing money and market share for well over a decade, which easily encapsulates the time-frame in which this car was developed.
Given those details, I fail to see how it was logical to pursue the development of this car in the first place!
The important point you're missing is that the F-body they axed in 2002 was a totally different, and completely inferior product to the one they're building now. It wasn't selling because it was an outdated piece of junk that everyone was tired of looking at. They couldn't conceive any more ways to [censored] it, so they killed it.
... It has nothing in common (thankfully) with the 2002 Camaro, which reached the end of its usefulness due to several wrong turns the car's design had taken since 1982.
the camaro from '82 to '92 was the 3rd gen. the 4th gen car ('93 to '02) was a completely new platform. the new LS engine family was introduced in '98.
so, there WERE changes, many of them, from '82 to '02. and the new 5th gen does have much in common w/ the 4th gen, namely, the drivetrain. the new LS3 is the current incarnation of the LS1 from '98.
the LS equipped 4th gens are a great perfomance deal, can be had cheap, respond well to mods, and have proved themselves in road racing and drag racing.
there are many many documented cases of waraanty/service issues w/ GM, as will be had w/ any very large company. they can't micromanage every dealer.
but, to be fair, when something goes right, how apt are you to post about that?
"hey, just wanted to say nothing went wrong w/ my car today"
FWIW, I just came up on 5 years on my made in spring hill, TN Saturn VUE. 64K, runs well, just maintenance, one little warranty issue a few yrs ago (fixed, no probs, no headaches) and I just got a new gas cap under recall.
so, based on MY experiences, I WOULD buy a new GM.
but, to be fair, when something goes right, how apt are you to post about that?
"hey, just wanted to say nothing went wrong w/ my car today"
FWIW, I just came up on 5 years on my made in spring hill, TN Saturn VUE. 64K, runs well, just maintenance, one little warranty issue a few yrs ago (fixed, no probs, no headaches) and I just got a new gas cap under recall.
so, based on MY experiences, I WOULD buy a new GM.
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I hope the Camaro does well. The Mustang has always been one of Ford's better ideas ..the exception being the Pinto ..errr Mustang II.
I hope that all manufacturers come out of the fire as lean and functional enterprises.
The Pinto-based Mustang II is the ONLY thing that kept the Mustang around past 1973. Much as enthusiasts hate to hear it, the 'II' is the car that saved the Mustang, and apart form the first one, is the most important Mustange ever made.
I hope the Camaro does well. The Mustang has always been one of Ford's better ideas ..the exception being the Pinto ..errr Mustang II.
I hope that all manufacturers come out of the fire as lean and functional enterprises.
The Pinto-based Mustang II is the ONLY thing that kept the Mustang around past 1973. Much as enthusiasts hate to hear it, the 'II' is the car that saved the Mustang, and apart form the first one, is the most important Mustange ever made.
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