Fram vs Wix

A few people have been using the Pentius XL with good success so far. I will try it next myself. 99% at 20um, excellent construction, cheap at amazon.
Unfortunately, That's not what they shared with me when I pressed them via email. I already posted this recently perhaps that's what the other poster was referring to.

This is a graph that represents all of their Pentius XL filter line. Which shows to be 99 @ 34.54.

microrating.png
 
Unfortunately, That's not what they shared with me when I pressed them via email. I already posted this recently perhaps that's what the other poster was referring to.

This is a graph that represents all of their Pentius XL filter line. Which shows to be 99 @ 34.54.

View attachment 180080
Single or multi pass? nominal or absolute.

There website and box clearly list 99% @ 20um. https://pentiusautoparts.com/ufxl-oil-filters/

As already stated - I don't believe anything I get from "customer service", including the company I work for. There the lowest paid, least trained people in the building. Possibly they have the regular pentius jobber filter? Or maybe Pentius, a 25 year old company partially owned by General motors is outright false advertising. If they were you would think they would have customer service better trained to lie accordingly.

I believe whats written on the spec sheet rather than customer service. No disrespect intended. You can believe whichever you want.

I will add that I haven't even used the one Pentius filter I bought - so I have no horse in the race either way.



1695490320998.png
 
Nominal efficiency is defined at 50% efficiency.
Absolute efficiency is defined at 98.7% efficiency.

Both are listed in the Pentius table.
If so, then the table makes no sense.

If the 98.7% represents absolute efficiency - which would mean by that definition that a single pass bead size would be 25.72 microns is the largest that can pass - according to the table.

And 50% represents nominal - says it can catch half of all particles that are 10.98 um

Then 99% @ 34.54um isn't possible.

ie no way can it catch half of all 11um particles and 98.7% of particles 25.72um, and have a multi pass filter rating of 99% at 34.54um.

Not to mention it says cumulative on each spec? Whatever that means?

The table math doesn't add up.

1695500345431.jpg
 
If so, then the table makes no sense.

If the 98.7% represents absolute efficiency - which would mean by that definition that a single pass bead size would be 25.72 microns is the largest that can pass - according to the table.

And 50% represents nominal - says it can catch half of all particles that are 10.98 um

Then 99% @ 34.54um isn't possible.

ie no way can it catch half of all 11um particles and 98.7% of particles 25.72um, and have a multi pass filter rating of 99% at 34.54um.

Not to mention it says cumulative on each spec? Whatever that means?

The table math doesn't add up.

View attachment 180117
It makes sense if cumulative means each percentage is inclusive of all smaller sizes.
 
It makes sense if cumulative means each percentage is inclusive of all smaller sizes.
I don't think so?

It says that cumulative 98.67% of 25.72um and larger particles are removed.

However if you want to move further along - it says if you go up another 1/3 of a percentage point you revert back to 34.54um. Realize a 35um particle is more than double the diameter and volume of a 25um particle. So to get from 98.67% to 99% your have double the particle size. You would need to have a reverse kink in your filtration curve? Makes no sense - to me at least?
 
If so, then the table makes no sense.

If the 98.7% represents absolute efficiency - which would mean by that definition that a single pass bead size would be 25.72 microns is the largest that can pass - according to the table.
In the filter industry, "Absolute Efficiency" is defined at the efficiency at 98.7%. Don't ask me why, but that IS the definition.

And 50% represents nominal - says it can catch half of all particles that are 10.98 um
And greater ... it includes all particles that are 10.98 and larger.

Then 99% @ 34.54um isn't possible.

ie no way can it catch half of all 11um particles and 98.7% of particles 25.72um, and have a multi pass filter rating of 99% at 34.54um.
Some of that depends on the size distribution of the test dust (and probably also the particle counter) used in the efficiency test.
 
I don't think so?

It says that cumulative 98.67% of 25.72um and larger particles are removed.

However if you want to move further along - it says if you go up another 1/3 of a percentage point you revert back to 34.54um. Realize a 35um particle is more than double the diameter and volume of a 25um particle. So to get from 98.67% to 99% your have double the particle size. You would need to have a reverse kink in your filtration curve? Makes no sense - to me at least?
What it means, based solely on those numbers, is that the filter is only 0.3% more efficient at filtering out particles 25.7u and larger than it is filtering out particles 34.5u and larger. So like every oil filter, when you're up near the absolute efficiency, the curve will look like that. Look at these curves ... they go asymptotic as the efficiency gets close to 100%.


1695512746545.jpeg
 
What it means, based solely on those numbers, is that the filter is only 0.3% more efficient at filtering out particles 25.7u and larger than it is filtering out particles 34.5u and larger. So like every oil filter, when you're up near the absolute efficiency, the curve will look like that. Look at these curves ... they go asymptotic as the efficiency gets close to 100%.


View attachment 180179
Correct, and when I plot the numbers above on this same chart - assuming the numbers are accurate and follow ISO testing, etc - I get a curve that is somewhere between a Purolator boss and AC Delco Ultra Gold (which I don't think exists anymore does it?) I would think is pretty good for a quality built budget filter? Forgive my shaky mouse drawing.

And we really don't know what those numbers above represent exactly. The box and website both state 20um / 99% multi pass. Possibly the above is for one particular filter size. Manufacturers always cherry pick. The only way to really know is to have it tested by Ascent.

Do we really know the Fram Ultra Synthetic - which at the time of this test was a mesh backed 2 part synthetic / cellulose media, and now is a non wire backed hybrid synthetic media. Is it still the same curve?

Again, I have no horse in the race - just trying to get to the correct data.

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New here……..been lurking for years and finally decided to join. Anyways wanted some thoughts on switching from fram ultra xg 10575 to a wix 10225xp??? This is on a 18 Silverado 5.3 L with 70k miles.
If you want a filter that FLOWs? go with the WIX.
If you want a filter that FILTERS? go with a Fram: XG Ultra, FS Titanium, FE Endurance, or TG ToughGaurd
Oil Filter Efficiency Compairson.jpg
 
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If you what a filter that FLOWs? go with the WIX.
If you want a filter that FILTERS? go with a Fram: XG Ultra, FS Titanium, FE Endurance, or TG ToughGaurd
You can have both high efficiency and good flow. The "flowabiltiy" of the filter only defines the delta-p vs flow curve, and frankly there isn't really much difference in them (like only a few PSI, which the PD doesn't really care about) with hot oil even at full oil pump flow volume.

 
You can have both high efficiency and good flow. The "flowabiltiy" of the filter only defines the delta-p vs flow curve, and frankly there isn't really much difference in them (like only a few PSI, which the PD doesn't really care about) with hot oil even at full oil pump flow volume.

So the Frams I mentioned are a win win?
 
I just did an oil change with a WIX 10225 XP. The older one was 57045 XP. To my surprise, the end cap wrench I've used on this car for 12 years, didn't fit. These are AC Delco PF63 equivalents, and the wrench fits both the OE and the 57045. So the new one is different.

New is 14 flutes, old 15. Wonder why the change? My hunch is it's just a name, the two filters bear no resemblance? But what do I know.
 
I just did an oil change with a WIX 10225 XP. The older one was 57045 XP. To my surprise, the end cap wrench I've used on this car for 12 years, didn't fit. These are AC Delco PF63 equivalents, and the wrench fits both the OE and the 57045. So the new one is different.

New is 14 flutes, old 15. Wonder why the change? My hunch is it's just a name, the two filters bear no resemblance? But what do I know.
I stopped buying filter end cap wrenches years ago because the filters I used them on would pull this stunt every so often, and I got sick of that. I have a good strap wrench (one size fits all) if I need it to remove a filter, and just install them by hand now.
 
I stopped buying filter end cap wrenches years ago because the filters I used them on would pull this stunt every so often, and I got sick of that. I have a good strap wrench (one size fits all) if I need it to remove a filter, and just install them by hand now.
I agree, when they work they work but I just tried changing the Boss filter on my Civic and it just kept slipping then I remembered that it's good for 15k so I'll deal with it the next change. On my Civic the band wrenches are tight because the axle is right there in the way, this is a D series that has the filter on the back of the motor up high.
 
Yes, a band or strap type of filter wrench needs some room to use ... my vehicles have enough room. I've never tried one, but one of these might be the way to go for tight quarters.


Something isn't right because when I looked up the Boss filter online it shows mine being 3.15 but the wrench I was using was for 2-7/8 to 3-1/4 which should've put it right at the upper end on the range, I kept pulling it to tighten on the filter but seemed like it just wouldn't tighten enough. When I get it off I'll have to measure it with calipers but it seems like it's like in between sizes, the next one down won't open enough either to fit on there. Worst case is I'll jbweld or epoxy the cup one on there to get it off because with the axle in the way you don't really have the room to drive a screwdriver through it and the oil sending unit is directly above the filter too.

I think I have one of those 3 prong styles you linked, I'll have to check but I seem to remember picking one up from Walmart awhile back.
 
Something isn't right because when I looked up the Boss filter online it shows mine being 3.15 but the wrench I was using was for 2-7/8 to 3-1/4 which should've put it right at the upper end on the range, I kept pulling it to tighten on the filter but seemed like it just wouldn't tighten enough. When I get it off I'll have to measure it with calipers but it seems like it's like in between sizes, the next one down won't open enough either to fit on there. Worst case is I'll jbweld or epoxy the cup one on there to get it off because with the axle in the way you don't really have the room to drive a screwdriver through it and the oil sending unit is directly above the filter too.

I think I have one of those 3 prong styles you linked, I'll have to check but I seem to remember picking one up from Walmart awhile back.
I remember when getting the 2011 Enclave and looking, I thought ye gads that’s tight and the oil is gonna drip out on the engine Mount when I take out the filter.

Someone on the forum gave the exact part number for the end cap wrench from Walmart, so I got it and it’s worked great all these years. Same cap wrench works on the WIX XP for the Lexus (it’s tiny).

On the Lexus I got Mobil 1 filters on sale $9.99 and lo and behold the cap wrench didn’t fit. Got a new one for $8 at Auto Zone, and turns out that one works, for the new WIX XP yesterday….

When I think about all this, it’s astounding how much is riding on the gasket. I like a little more than hand tight because often can’t get hands in properly to tighten, and if wearing gloves, already oily and slippery…
 
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