Fram Ultra… did they switch back to wire screen backed media or did I buy old stock? XG4386
- Thread starter cman
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Comparing media area of different media type's isn't going to be oranges-to-oranges because the holding capacity can be much different between them, especially when full synthetic media is used.
Since you cut open 3 different Fram models, all essentially the same size for the same application, that's a good way to see how the media design (holding capacity wise) impacts the total area. In your total area comparison experiment of the same sized Frams, the OG Ultra with the full synthetic media will probably have the least total media, but it's rated for the highest mileage use of 20K miles.
XG5 guys better stock up.
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It was not a comparison between the 3 xx5 filters, it was between the xx5 filters and the cartridge filter that my Jeep uses (XG11665) just to get an idea of the differences in square inches so that I can decide if I am going to do with a single remote filter or a dual.
In the end, I will likely use the xx5 filter, but not a FRAM, which is sad since they have been my go-to for the last 13 years--UNLESS I stock up now...LOL
Still can't really compare the total media area of those three xx5 Frams to the OEM filter. Again, the mileage use rating (the holding capacity) depends on more than just the media area - the media design is the other big factor. Comparing the mileage use rating of the three xx5 filters will show you that, and was my point in my previous post.
If you are going with a large oil filter on a remote mount, there's no real reason to go with dual oil filters IMO. Put a large sized filter like an XG5 and you'll be able to go 20K miles with ease on one oil filter if that's your goal. How often are you going to change the oil and filter?
See post 43 above ... stock up now while the OG wire backed XG5s are still available.
Your engine is the 3.6 and you want to put another oil filter on, like a bypass oil filter. Do not do it, you will lose oil pressure. Spend your money on a better oil.
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Why would I lose pressure on a system with a positive displacement oil pump? Note that I am not going to be using a cartridge filter if I decide to do this, there is a system you can install that replaces the cartridge with an adapter that has -10AN fittings to connect to remote oil filter housings.
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??? I can see there is an 83% increase in media going from the XG11665 to the XG5 so regardless if completely accurate, I can easily tell the XG5 would be more media versus the XG11665 which is what I wanted to know (e.g. I do not want to have less media area).
How does a remote oil filter setup cause reduced oil pressure, unless the remote setup is under designed with tiny hoses?
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Right--it won't and the hoses are -10AN so that will not be an issue...
He can put on his Remote Oil Filter and then do an Oil Pressure Test, maybe do a before and after test, and if I am wrong so be it. I do not see any benefit from running a Remote Oil Filter.
Sure, the larger XG5 will have more media area than the XG11665, because it's a physically larger filter. The same will hold true if comparing a PH5 or TG5 to a PH or TG11665 ... and will also always be the case when comparing a smaller to larger filter that both use the same media.
What I'm saying is you can't compare two filters of the same size that use different media. If you used a xx5 sized filter vs the xx11665 of any media type, the much larger xx5 sized filter will have more media.
And if you compare the total media area of a PH, TG and XG5 to the 11665, choosing the xx5 filter with the most media area most likely will not be the OG XG5 because it uses less media and still has the highest holding capacity with the 20K mile rating. That's what I'm getting at.
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Positive displacement oil pump. Only time a remote oil filter setup will reduce oil pressure is if the hoses going to and from the remote filter mount are way too small and cause a lot of flow restriction - or there are super small holes in the remote mounting block itself. And the oil pump would have to hit pressure relief way earlier with those super restrictive hoses in order to cut back oil flow to the engine. Any engineer designing remote oil filter setups should be smart enough to not under design the hoses and the oil paths in the filter mounting block.
Ok, so a Positive Displacement oil pump is different than the Oil Pump I have on my 1966 Pontiac GTO with a 389 Engine. Looks like I need to read up on a Positive Displacement Oil Pump!
Your GTO has a positive displacement oil pump ... I'd say all engines do. They don't use centripetal type of oil pumps.
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If you had a 3.6L with its plastic oil filter and cooler housing you would understand the benefits--not twisting the housing will help prevent leaks.
As for the pressure, I still do not understand why you think there will be a pressure drop...
You can install a bypass filter on a tiny little 1.8 liter 4-banger engine if you really wanted to….. just ensure the flow is restricted so there is just a small amount of oil being diverted to the bypass.
I am a fan of bypass filters like the Amsoil (The toilet paper ones not so much I hear they leak) but what I am not a fan of is all the extra hoses that accompany the oil bypass filter setups. Why? Because they present points of failure and most kits come with cheap hoses that are not suitable for the job.
Even the Amsoil kit comes with DOT brake hose, which is not rated for the temps that oil operates at. Its a massive oil leak and engine failure waiting to happen.
All that said, if you use high quality stainless braided PTFE hose, (I prefer the thick walled stuff just to be safe) and get it all professionally crimped (or purchased in pre made sections like the Eaton aero quip) then you can make a professional bypass setup, with high quality components.
Below is what I recommend, don't use the fittings you put on yourself... get the ones crimped and pre made from Eaton or get them professionally crimped. All Stainless, no aluminum fittings. Aluminum is fine but only when its a big block like a oil filter mount... small aluminum fittings are notoriously fragile.
If a oil hose burst with and you have a massive loss of oil and pressure, it will potentially destroy your engine.
hosewarehouse.com
Because of all this stuff (and more) i don't run bypass, but if I had the time and money to invest into it right now then I might be running it. I really like being able to filter under 20um wear particles... but right now I just change my oil often (with a Fram Ultra!!) and I feel that I am getting 90% of what a bypass filter would give me as far as engine longevity (filtering down to 20um with Fram Ultra) and with 0% of the headache.
I am a fan of bypass filters like the Amsoil (The toilet paper ones not so much I hear they leak) but what I am not a fan of is all the extra hoses that accompany the oil bypass filter setups. Why? Because they present points of failure and most kits come with cheap hoses that are not suitable for the job.
Even the Amsoil kit comes with DOT brake hose, which is not rated for the temps that oil operates at. Its a massive oil leak and engine failure waiting to happen.
All that said, if you use high quality stainless braided PTFE hose, (I prefer the thick walled stuff just to be safe) and get it all professionally crimped (or purchased in pre made sections like the Eaton aero quip) then you can make a professional bypass setup, with high quality components.
Below is what I recommend, don't use the fittings you put on yourself... get the ones crimped and pre made from Eaton or get them professionally crimped. All Stainless, no aluminum fittings. Aluminum is fine but only when its a big block like a oil filter mount... small aluminum fittings are notoriously fragile.
If a oil hose burst with and you have a massive loss of oil and pressure, it will potentially destroy your engine.
Aeroquip Pre-Made Off-Road Brake Lines | Hose Warehouse | USA
Search all the Aeroquip Pre-Made Off-Road Brake Lines available at Hose Warehouse located in Akron, OH and online at HoseWarhouse.com
hosewarehouse.com
Because of all this stuff (and more) i don't run bypass, but if I had the time and money to invest into it right now then I might be running it. I really like being able to filter under 20um wear particles... but right now I just change my oil often (with a Fram Ultra!!) and I feel that I am getting 90% of what a bypass filter would give me as far as engine longevity (filtering down to 20um with Fram Ultra) and with 0% of the headache.
There's a difference between a remote bypass filter setup and a remote full flow filter setup. The latter is what @CarbonSteel is talking about.
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I plan to use hoses which are properly rated and crimped by a local industrial hose shop. Stainless flex will be too stiff, but there are many other hose types which will meet the need.You can install a bypass filter on a tiny little 1.8 liter 4-banger engine if you really wanted to….. just ensure the flow is restricted so there is just a small amount of oil being diverted to the bypass.
I am a fan of bypass filters like the Amsoil (The toilet paper ones not so much I hear they leak) but what I am not a fan of is all the extra hoses that accompany the oil bypass filter setups. Why? Because they present points of failure and most kits come with cheap hoses that are not suitable for the job.
Even the Amsoil kit comes with DOT brake hose, which is not rated for the temps that oil operates at. Its a massive oil leak and engine failure waiting to happen.
All that said, if you use high quality stainless braided PTFE hose, (I prefer the thick walled stuff just to be safe) and get it all professionally crimped (or purchased in pre made sections like the Eaton aero quip) then you can make a professional bypass setup, with high quality components.
Below is what I recommend, don't use the fittings you put on yourself... get the ones crimped and pre made from Eaton or get them professionally crimped. All Stainless, no aluminum fittings. Aluminum is fine but only when its a big block like a oil filter mount... small aluminum fittings are notoriously fragile.
If a oil hose burst with and you have a massive loss of oil and pressure, it will potentially destroy your engine.
Aeroquip Pre-Made Off-Road Brake Lines | Hose Warehouse | USA
Search all the Aeroquip Pre-Made Off-Road Brake Lines available at Hose Warehouse located in Akron, OH and online at HoseWarhouse.com
Because of all this stuff (and more) i don't run bypass, but if I had the time and money to invest into it right now then I might be running it. I really like being able to filter under 20um wear particles... but right now I just change my oil often (with a Fram Ultra!!) and I feel that I am getting 90% of what a bypass filter would give me as far as engine longevity (filtering down to 20um with Fram Ultra) and with 0% of the headache.
As Zee said, this is not a bypass filter setup, it is full flow which its prime purpose is to stop "wrenching" on the filter housing which is plastic and cracks. I believe mine may be leaking now and it's a very labor intensive process so if I'm going to change it out, I'm putting in preventative measures.
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