As was mentioned, BMW Longlife-01 and Longlife-04 are two, along with Longlife-04 and VW 502 00. There are others. If you look at the requirements in the Afton Specification Handbook you'll see why.
FRAM oil is now available @AAP
- Thread starter wemay
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,417
I thought ll-04 could be used in ll-01 applications? I'm not trying to defend this oil
If you have low-sulfur fuel, sure. But what the approvals require is different, it wasn't about what could be used but what those listings mean.
Look you may not like it, but generally speaking, an LL04 oil can be run with no problems in an LL01 engine. Thus, suitable.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
No you misunderstand. It is fine by me and that wasn't my point, the point was that the two approvals are competing and an oil cannot have both approvals at the same time. Just as I would use a 504 00 oil instead of a 502 00, I'd use a Longlife-04 instead of Longlife-01. But the approval requirements are mutually exclusive and an oil can not and could not be approved for both.
It's only a molehill if words don't mean anything. It shows poor character and carless business practices, not all blenders and formulators are this sloppy.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,417
It has no euro approvals, correct? The ll-01 and ll-01 have to pass the same tests, according to EdyVW.
Edit: I wouldn't buy this oil anyway. I would just go Castrol 0w-40 / 5w-40 or if lower SAPS is needed : Catrol 5w30 LL
The kid has been clocking a daily average thats more impressive than most adults. His next oil change is months sooner than I had figured. Suppose a sample will be taken in the next month or so. I'm quite curious how it'll look. After finishing up his next jug of this Amalie Spooky Brew, we'll likely just dump in Castrol or Mobil, based on cost alone. Again, the only reason we tried it to begin with, was to simplify the last change....getting a 5w40 with a good filter in one stop.
Thanks for the tip on Castrol 5W-40!
I had previously looked at Castrol Edge EURO 5W-40 A3/B4 but it does not meet MB 229.51 (I have a 2008 Sprinter 3500 cab-chassis).
Now I see that Castrol Edge EURO 5W-40 TURBO DIESEL "exceeds MB 229.51" and is on the Mercedes Bevo list. My short list is now longer by one!
Castrol® Edge Euro Car Formula | WELCOME | CASTROL USA
Castrol® Edge Euro Car is an advanced full synthetic motor oil formulated to improve engine durability in European cars. Find out if you can benefit from switching to Castrol Edge Euro Car formula.
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be available at any of the usual vendors, including the ones Castrol recommends. They have plenty of Castrol, just not that flavor.
I get your point, and it's a good one.
I'm used to posting over on Sprinter-Source. I need to keep reminding myself that I'm on BITOG, where people (obviously) have a wide range of vehicles. In our case, we have a 2008 Sprinter 3500 cab-chassis with a Winnebago box on it, so I'm looking for MB 229.51 and 5W-40.
Do you see anything listed that conflicts with MB 229.51?
The story I got from Amalie, which I have no reason to doubt, is that while their own brand 5W-40, and this "Fram" oil, are not currently on the Mercedes Bevo list, they were on it up through January 2020, when Amalie's contract with MB ended and they did not want to continue paying MB for the right to print "MB-Approval 229.51" on the bottle.
Amalie is not alone in this. There are many oil mfrs that print something similar to MB's wording, but different enough to avoid litigation -- like "exceeds MB 229.51" or "meets MB 229.51" -- avoiding the word "approval". Of course, there is always the chance (however slight) that the oil doesn't actually meet the 229.51 spec. It would be very foolish for a mfr or bottler to do that though.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,417
Thanks for the tip on Castrol 5W-40!
I had previously looked at Castrol Edge EURO 5W-40 A3/B4 but it does not meet MB 229.51 (I have a 2008 Sprinter 3500 cab-chassis).
Now I see that Castrol Edge EURO 5W-40 TURBO DIESEL "exceeds MB 229.51" and is on the Mercedes Bevo list. My short list is now longer by one!
Castrol® Edge Euro Car Formula | WELCOME | CASTROL USA
Castrol® Edge Euro Car is an advanced full synthetic motor oil formulated to improve engine durability in European cars. Find out if you can benefit from switching to Castrol Edge Euro Car formula.www.castrol.com
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be available at any of the usual vendors, including the ones Castrol recommends. They have plenty of Castrol, just not that flavor.
Thank you!
I'm really looking for 5W-40 though, and that is very hard to find. One place, AutohausAZ (sp?) has it for almost $9/quart. I didn't even bother checking tax and shipping.
We have a fully loaded (11,000+ lb) Winnebago View. Between the weight, wind resistance, and mountain driving I often have my foot on the floor (or using engine braking). I don't abuse it, but I run it hard. In short, we don't fit the profile of the "typical" RVers doing 20-under and leading a parade of irate drivers. My "other car" is a modified WRX.
I mention all that to explain why I don't just go with 5W-30. That would clearly be easier. I probably could use it without the engine becoming shrapnel, but 5W-40 is what was originally recommended. Also, since we bought bought it used in 2012, it has burned a significant amount of oil -- about 2-3 quarts during the 10,000 mile OCI -- and that's with 5W-40.
If it was in light duty service I'd feel more comfortable using 5W-30.
Understand that this 5W-30 we're recommending is practically 40 grade, it's not the typical thin resource conserving and ILSAC stuff that's spec'd by most American and Japanese manufacturers, whether it's 5w-30 or 5w-40 most ACEA C3 oils will have a KV100 of 12-13CSt and have an HTHS150 viscosity of 3.5-3.7 whereas the thin 5W30 for American/Japanese cars tends to have a KV100 of 10-11CSt with a HTHS150 viscosity of around 2.9-3.2.
Approvals aren't that expensive so when a blender or formulator no longer wishes to obtain one it's either because they no longer want to pursue that specific market or the oil can no longer meet the requirements. If they no longer wish to pursue the market then IMO they should stop making it look like they do. But that's just my opinion.
There is a boutique blender that prints an oil "exceeds" a certain license and if you read the fine print you find it does in fact exceed, but what it exceeds is one of the limits for the license. So one must be careful when you're reading the tea leaves of "exceeds" or "recommended for" or "suitable". Recommended for or suitable can mean that out of the oils the blender sells, this one is what they recommend. That doesn't mean a whole lot.
Yes the HT/HS is a far better metric here than the grade. With these types of approvals or specifications grade is really irrelevant.
In my case, I'm looking for a synthetic 5W-40 that meets MB 229.51, has the req'd API ratings, is readily available, and (ideally) is reasonably priced.
The Fram/Amalie oil checks all of the boxes.
I've been working on anything with an engine since the early to mid 1970s. Until fairly recently, all that was necessary was that the oil have the correct viscosity and API rating(s). You knew you were good if you had those 2 things. In short, there was no need to be an 'oil guy'.
I'm going to have to do some reading before I can respond semi-intelligently to most of your comment. One question though -- aren't there ASE standards for viscosity? I can't imagine that what one mfr calls a 5W-30 is someone else's 5W-40.
Edit to add: I see the Fram #F935 (the 5W-40) meets ACEA C3.
Last edited:
Just to be clear, by "... these types of approvals or specifications..." are you referring to (for example) MB 229.51, or some other specs?
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,417
Yes, MB 229.51 is an example of an approval. The approval means that the oil has passed the tests, and was granted an approval. I would just go with the Castrol 5w-30 LL, like previously mentioned. It is a good oil, use with confidence.
Solid advice, I'll keep it in mind. I've heard the same elsewhere. Right now I'm still in research mode.
I had been using Valvoline #VV966 (5W-40) for years, but Valvoline changed the formula -- without changing the part number(!) -- and now it just has 229.5 approval. That's what started this epic search.
It seems the powers that be are really pushing the 5W-30 oil -- 229.51/52. Even at AAP, when I enter "2008 Dodge Sprinter 3500 3.0L turbo diesel" it comes back with "This part (the F935) does not 'fit' your vehicle". What's up that?! Any oil with that approval and viscosity/grade absolutely is correct -- that's what early NCV3 Sprinter owners were advised to use. It is listed in the owner's manual and the MB "Bevo" list.
BTW, I know MB-Approval 229.51 is an approval, I just wanted to confirm that it was what you meant by, "approvals or specifications"
Similar threads
