Iwent to the Fram filter website and I saw how they tested their filters.By these videos these Fram filters should be considered a decent oil filter.the glued end caps according to their tests remain in great shape even after severe testing.The red can of death was tested and it did well also.I just bought a Fram Ultra filter for a 2001 Ford explorer and it seems like a great filter by it's construction.fram may not be all that bad.Joe
Fram/Fram Ultra
- Thread starter Dually
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The Ultra (XG series) is the best filter FRAM makes. It has metal end caps and is a full synthetic, wire backed media that is high in filtration efficiency (99% @ 20 microns) and considered a long OCI filter.
It's the only FRAM filter I'd use.
It's the only FRAM filter I'd use.
Well, FRAM's best filter is a pretty good filter. The others are built cheaply, and many a time, not worth paying the same for as a better (or at least overbuilt) alternative.
Originally Posted By: Dually
By these videos these Fram filters should be considered a decent oil filter.
If FRAM's own website said "our cardboard end caps are cheap and economical and we use those savings to our advantage, here's the tests they fail to pass" I doubt they'd be in business very long.
Originally Posted By: Dually
By these videos these Fram filters should be considered a decent oil filter.
If FRAM's own website said "our cardboard end caps are cheap and economical and we use those savings to our advantage, here's the tests they fail to pass" I doubt they'd be in business very long.
I used to think that that Fram Tough guard oil filters were a decent oil filter (I already felt OCOD were junk to begin with) until I decided to cut open one I had in my stash. Now I wont let an Orange or Silver can touch my truck. Now I use Purolator P1's (or classics if I'm in a pinch) and I've been happy with them and I know they are a quality filter for the price.
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Orange Can of Death is a decent filter, and still gets the job done in an admirable way.
Yes, it is indeed true that some may think that given the glued endcaps and whatever they want to believe on the internet is overpriced, nevertheless, given it's track record: it hasn't failed in anyway that would have otherwise bring down the reputation/biz of Honeywell so far.
overpriced?! YMMV. does it gets the job done? Oh yeah! millions of automobiles up here runs on orange cans and no negative/catastrophic incidents of engine failure reported or lawsuits reported so far.
On the other hand: I see far too many armchair scientists who claimed to know more than engineers all over the internet.
(* and those are the type of armchair scientists who tried to blend their own fuel injector cleaners out of all kinds of pale oil, solvents and what-not in a very non-scientific way and claimed success....*)
Q.
Yes, it is indeed true that some may think that given the glued endcaps and whatever they want to believe on the internet is overpriced, nevertheless, given it's track record: it hasn't failed in anyway that would have otherwise bring down the reputation/biz of Honeywell so far.
overpriced?! YMMV. does it gets the job done? Oh yeah! millions of automobiles up here runs on orange cans and no negative/catastrophic incidents of engine failure reported or lawsuits reported so far.
On the other hand: I see far too many armchair scientists who claimed to know more than engineers all over the internet.
(* and those are the type of armchair scientists who tried to blend their own fuel injector cleaners out of all kinds of pale oil, solvents and what-not in a very non-scientific way and claimed success....*)
Q.
Fram Ultra is a excellent extended drain filter. There others lines are ok filters for normal drain interval. The issue I have with them is, their are many better filters that have higher efficiency ratings and our built much better for less money.
If Yugo had made a midengined v6 supercar in the late 1980's no one would have gone for it either.
Ultra's for $7 bucks a piece ain't bad. They're good filters. But I wouldn't put an OCOD on the ex's car...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170927049151?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Free shipping, took 4 days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170927049151?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Free shipping, took 4 days.
Originally Posted By: Quest
Orange Can of Death is a decent filter, and still gets the job done in an admirable way.
Yes, it is indeed true that some may think that given the glued endcaps and whatever they want to believe on the internet is overpriced, nevertheless, given it's track record: it hasn't failed in anyway that would have otherwise bring down the reputation/biz of Honeywell so far.
overpriced?! YMMV. does it gets the job done? Oh yeah! millions of automobiles up here runs on orange cans and no negative/catastrophic incidents of engine failure reported or lawsuits reported so far.
On the other hand: I see far too many armchair scientists who claimed to know more than engineers all over the internet.
(* and those are the type of armchair scientists who tried to blend their own fuel injector cleaners out of all kinds of pale oil, solvents and what-not in a very non-scientific way and claimed success....*)
Q.
I like how you put it.
People here go on and on about an orange can on your engine being the same as putting a handful of beach sand in thru the oil fill cap. Who are these people? They are nobody's with a mind full of nonsense. They go on and on about Purolator being a better filter for less money. Says who? Just because it has metal end caps? Because it has a white can color? Or maybe they are just jumping on the bandwagon and agreeing with the mob so that they don't get pounced on?
Who says metal end caps are better than fibre end caps? As humans we automatically think that no matter what, metal is always better. We went thru this attitude change 15-20 years ago when all these automotive parts went to plastic instead of steel. If we were to go back to all steel parts on our cars people would complain again: "my car is a gas guzzler because it is so heavy." Or "my new car is rusting away!"
Get a grip people.
Orange Can of Death is a decent filter, and still gets the job done in an admirable way.
Yes, it is indeed true that some may think that given the glued endcaps and whatever they want to believe on the internet is overpriced, nevertheless, given it's track record: it hasn't failed in anyway that would have otherwise bring down the reputation/biz of Honeywell so far.
overpriced?! YMMV. does it gets the job done? Oh yeah! millions of automobiles up here runs on orange cans and no negative/catastrophic incidents of engine failure reported or lawsuits reported so far.
On the other hand: I see far too many armchair scientists who claimed to know more than engineers all over the internet.
(* and those are the type of armchair scientists who tried to blend their own fuel injector cleaners out of all kinds of pale oil, solvents and what-not in a very non-scientific way and claimed success....*)
Q.
I like how you put it.
People here go on and on about an orange can on your engine being the same as putting a handful of beach sand in thru the oil fill cap. Who are these people? They are nobody's with a mind full of nonsense. They go on and on about Purolator being a better filter for less money. Says who? Just because it has metal end caps? Because it has a white can color? Or maybe they are just jumping on the bandwagon and agreeing with the mob so that they don't get pounced on?
Who says metal end caps are better than fibre end caps? As humans we automatically think that no matter what, metal is always better. We went thru this attitude change 15-20 years ago when all these automotive parts went to plastic instead of steel. If we were to go back to all steel parts on our cars people would complain again: "my car is a gas guzzler because it is so heavy." Or "my new car is rusting away!"
Get a grip people.
Fram is a brand name. Under that brand there are different filters, from the base to the top of the line model.
Toyota is a brand name. Under that brand name there are different cars, from the base to the top of the line model.
Comparing a OCOD to an Ultra is like comparing a Yaris to an Avalon.
"I drove the Yaris, its junk, so all Toyota's are junk"
"some anonymous troll said paper end caps are bad, so all Frams are bad"
Toyota is a brand name. Under that brand name there are different cars, from the base to the top of the line model.
Comparing a OCOD to an Ultra is like comparing a Yaris to an Avalon.
"I drove the Yaris, its junk, so all Toyota's are junk"
"some anonymous troll said paper end caps are bad, so all Frams are bad"
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
I used to think that that Fram Tough guard oil filters were a decent oil filter (I already felt OCOD were junk to begin with) until I decided to cut open one I had in my stash. Now I wont let an Orange or Silver can touch my truck. Now I use Purolator P1's (or classics if I'm in a pinch) and I've been happy with them and I know they are a quality filter for the price.
When you cut the Fram open, what was it exactly that scared you? Anything like this?
Failed Purolator Classic
Or this?
Damaged Purolator Classic
Or maybe..this?
PureOne, more torn media.
As usual there are claims, but no proof of an actual problem. Thats believed because its Fram. Read the links with visual proof. Even with proof, responses are defenses and accusations because its a purolator. "you damaged it opening it up"!, "the pictures are doctored"!.
The whole OCOD thing is silly. "I don't care if there's a hole in the media, so long as there's metal end caps"!
I used to think that that Fram Tough guard oil filters were a decent oil filter (I already felt OCOD were junk to begin with) until I decided to cut open one I had in my stash. Now I wont let an Orange or Silver can touch my truck. Now I use Purolator P1's (or classics if I'm in a pinch) and I've been happy with them and I know they are a quality filter for the price.
When you cut the Fram open, what was it exactly that scared you? Anything like this?
Failed Purolator Classic
Or this?
Damaged Purolator Classic
Or maybe..this?
PureOne, more torn media.
As usual there are claims, but no proof of an actual problem. Thats believed because its Fram. Read the links with visual proof. Even with proof, responses are defenses and accusations because its a purolator. "you damaged it opening it up"!, "the pictures are doctored"!.
The whole OCOD thing is silly. "I don't care if there's a hole in the media, so long as there's metal end caps"!
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.....As usual there are claims, but no proof of an actual problem......
And your very obvious anti Purolator bias shows through in your post. I won't waste my time posting links and/or even chasing outside forum links showing some questionable/failed orange cans, and there's more than a few. The last link (outside) posted says the filter was made in 05 and apparently used in 2011. Can't/don't know for sure but 'in that specific instance' unknown storage conditions for that long could well be an issue in the media/endcap separation.
All that said, it's true that any and all filters can have an issue from time time. An oil filter is a mass production, assembly line product, which means issues can happen. As for the fiber vs metal endcap, it's a matter of choice and price for me. I prefer metal endcap construction so that's what I look for. That and I'm not going to pay more for fiber endcap construction, and 'in some cases' now a cheapened less user friendly tapping plate design on some orange cans vs a Puro Classic as is generally the case at Wally for most filter applications now. Just my preference.
To the topic, the Ultra is an excellent filter with solid construction and excellent efficiency for a price of ~$9 at Wally. It becomes a better value when used for extended 11-15k oci's or two oci's.
.....As usual there are claims, but no proof of an actual problem......
And your very obvious anti Purolator bias shows through in your post. I won't waste my time posting links and/or even chasing outside forum links showing some questionable/failed orange cans, and there's more than a few. The last link (outside) posted says the filter was made in 05 and apparently used in 2011. Can't/don't know for sure but 'in that specific instance' unknown storage conditions for that long could well be an issue in the media/endcap separation.
All that said, it's true that any and all filters can have an issue from time time. An oil filter is a mass production, assembly line product, which means issues can happen. As for the fiber vs metal endcap, it's a matter of choice and price for me. I prefer metal endcap construction so that's what I look for. That and I'm not going to pay more for fiber endcap construction, and 'in some cases' now a cheapened less user friendly tapping plate design on some orange cans vs a Puro Classic as is generally the case at Wally for most filter applications now. Just my preference.
To the topic, the Ultra is an excellent filter with solid construction and excellent efficiency for a price of ~$9 at Wally. It becomes a better value when used for extended 11-15k oci's or two oci's.
No, no bias, no axe to grind with anyone
Making a point about bias was all. How one filter is defended, another bashed.
^^^ Though I'm not sure that observation is true in all cases, point taken.
Clearly in the case of ZO6's posted 14459, there was a failure. Having used one from the same lot and seeing something similar, imo there was some issue with construction. IIRC, seems that 14459 lot had two less pleats than some previous 14459's that ZO and I had both previously used and dissected with no issues observed. It's also one of the reasons, in addition to more media area, I prefer the PL/L14610's for their uniform tight pleating.
IMO for the truly objective here, which I like to think many here are, the main difference between those that prefer say a Puro Classic over an orange can, is the current cost for construction. But obviously that's not true for all.
Clearly in the case of ZO6's posted 14459, there was a failure. Having used one from the same lot and seeing something similar, imo there was some issue with construction. IIRC, seems that 14459 lot had two less pleats than some previous 14459's that ZO and I had both previously used and dissected with no issues observed. It's also one of the reasons, in addition to more media area, I prefer the PL/L14610's for their uniform tight pleating.
IMO for the truly objective here, which I like to think many here are, the main difference between those that prefer say a Puro Classic over an orange can, is the current cost for construction. But obviously that's not true for all.
FRAM had a video where they compared the end caps of various filters. They made a good argument that the filter media could be said to bond better to a fiber end cap than a metal end cap. The Bentley filter had a fiber end cap, and some filters had no end cap as the filter media was just sealed.
Of course, if fiber is better, then why do FRAM's other, better filters not use fiber end caps too?
But I think that in general we are guessing about what is better with limited information. The filter manufacturers perform the actual testing and see the failure rates and do torture testing. There are tradeoffs between multiple factors. We simply don't have enough information to make an informed decision.
So my personal decision is to assume the design works and go for the highest filtering efficiency for the mileage I am running. The only spanner in the works for me is whether to go with Motorcraft's choice of bypass location or not.
In the long term, I think the best thing to do is to start using more cartridge filters. Firstly it's environmentally friendly and secondly it's a huge improvement in quality control as absolutely nothing is hidden.
Of course, if fiber is better, then why do FRAM's other, better filters not use fiber end caps too?
But I think that in general we are guessing about what is better with limited information. The filter manufacturers perform the actual testing and see the failure rates and do torture testing. There are tradeoffs between multiple factors. We simply don't have enough information to make an informed decision.
So my personal decision is to assume the design works and go for the highest filtering efficiency for the mileage I am running. The only spanner in the works for me is whether to go with Motorcraft's choice of bypass location or not.
In the long term, I think the best thing to do is to start using more cartridge filters. Firstly it's environmentally friendly and secondly it's a huge improvement in quality control as absolutely nothing is hidden.
Some interesting points above. Having visited the Fram Test Labs in Ohio at the gracious invitation of J Buckley and the nice folks at Fram I feel can comment on the use of metal endcaps in Ultra as opposed to the orange can and others. The Ultra is really a different contruction than the orange can, TG and others. It uses a wire mesh to back and support the synthetic media, so metal endcaps are required. Explanation makes sense if one thinks about it.
As for using cartridge filters, I also learned at the Fram labs that while more environmentally friendly, cartridge filter use on vehicles actually adds to the cost per unit in the manufacture of a vehicle. While the amount specified didn't seem that great when the total number of vehicles manufactured is considered the cost differnce is substantial. Just something to consider if more vehicles and manufacturers choose to stick with canister over cartridge filters.
As for using cartridge filters, I also learned at the Fram labs that while more environmentally friendly, cartridge filter use on vehicles actually adds to the cost per unit in the manufacture of a vehicle. While the amount specified didn't seem that great when the total number of vehicles manufactured is considered the cost differnce is substantial. Just something to consider if more vehicles and manufacturers choose to stick with canister over cartridge filters.
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