Fram Endurance / Walmart End of Life ?

Spring plate on top of filter canister is ???
What? ... we've been talking about ill formed ruffled leaf springs and the gap that causes an internal leak for months and you're asking if it's the "spring plate" on top of the filter. :oops: So now it's a "metal to metal crevice". 😄 It's really a metal to metal "seal" ... if you can call it a "seal".
 
Last edited:
What? ... we've been talking about ill formed ruffled leaf springs and the gap that causes an internal leak for months and you're asking if it's the "spring plate" on top of the filter. :oops:😄
Leaf…plate…spring …whatever
Tomato tomato
How bout a ham sandwich!!!
You serious ?
 
Last edited:
Leaf…plate…
Tomato tomato
Now it's a "leaf plate"? Is this "let's create new terms for already established descriptive words" used in oil filter discussions. Maybe we should call the leaf spring a "spring beam" or maybe a "dome end ruffles steel potato chip". 😄 It's been called a "leaf spring" for about as long as BITOG has been around.

The whole internet calls it a "leaf spring". A filter either has a leaf spring or a coil spring ... both do the same function.

1753590788408.webp
 
Last edited:
Now it's a "leaf plate"? Is this "let's create new terms for already established descriptive words" used in oil filter discussions. Maybe we should call the leaf spring a "spring beam" or maybe a "dome end ruffles steel potato chip". 😄 It's been called a "leaf spring" for about as long as BITOG has been around.

The whole internet calls it a "leaf spring". A filter either has a leaf spring or a coil spring ... both do the same function.

View attachment 291846
How about calling this subject a>>
RED HERRING <<>
🤪
It goes well with the Ham Sandwich!!

IMG_5504.webp
 
Wut???

I guess it’s an internal bypass?? If not an internal leak what would you call it?
Ok, then what’s an”external” filter leak? I just interpreted what was said as being a leak in the filter media itself..thus differentiating it from “external”…OUTSIDE the actual filter media, as in this instance.
Whatever, it’s just semantics. However, I will say this…. Any compromise in the MEDIA itself is potentially more serious, since it can EXPAND over time. A structural metal to metal gap, as in this case, is inherently static in nature.
 
Ok, then what’s an”external” filter leak? I just interpreted what was said as being a leak in the filter media itself..thus differentiating it from “external”…OUTSIDE the actual filter media, as in this instance.
Internal leak ... meaning there is unfiltered oil leaking past the media - going on internally inside the filter. An external leak would be oil leaking outside the can and all over your engine bay. Not hard to grasp.

Whatever, it’s just semantics. However, I will say this…. Any compromise in the MEDIA itself is potentially more serious, since it can EXPAND over time. A structural metal to metal gap, as in this case, is inherently static in nature.
It's still a constant internal leak going on. More "justification" for you is seems, which is good if you have to keep convincing yourself it worth using.
 
Internal leak ... meaning there is unfiltered oil leaking past the media - going on internally inside the filter. An external leak would be oil leaking outside the can and all over your engine bay. Not hard to grasp.


It's still a constant internal leak going on. More "justification" for you is seems, which is good if you have to keep convincing yourself it worth using.
Ok….fine and dandy…
I was focused on the FILTRATION aspect…differentiating on that basis. “Exterior” in your case is literally that…. and has more to do with the structure of the CAN itself or base sealing, rather than “filtering” elements of the part.
I do, however, think it’s important to make a distinction between the actual FILTER MEDIA and its construction vs “ancillary” components like the leaf spring or bypass element. A hole in the media can actually change ( get bigger) over time vs the metal on metal gap in this case which is static in nature.
BTW….”trying to convince myself” isn’t required
I’m open to any empirical data indicating this filter fails to do what the manufacturer claims. What little empirical data that WE DO HAVE …you dismiss as “inconclusive” even though they show the filter to be superior.
After all, in those instances …Brand Ranks and used oil particle analysis…..it COULD HAVE GONE THE OTHER WAY!
No doubt all the bashers would have accepted those results with open arms.🙄
 
Ok….fine and dandy…
I was focused on the FILTRATION aspect…differentiating on that basis. “Exterior” in your case is literally that…. and has more to do with the structure of the CAN itself or base sealing, rather than “filtering” elements of the part.
I do, however, think it’s important to make a distinction between the actual FILTER MEDIA and its construction vs “ancillary” components like the leaf spring or bypass element. A hole in the media can actually change ( get bigger) over time vs the metal on metal gap in this case which is static in nature.
BTW….”trying to convince myself” isn’t required
I’m open to any empirical data indicating this filter fails to do what the manufacturer claims. What little empirical data that WE DO HAVE …you dismiss as “inconclusive” even though they show the filter to be superior.
After all, in those instances …Brand Ranks and used oil particle analysis…..it COULD HAVE GONE THE OTHER WAY!
No doubt all the bashers would have accepted those results with open arms.🙄
You do realize the UOA particle count of 15 put it in a tie with the Boss with only the Toyota filter being worse? That’s why I believe that one was a leaker. The Amsoil and Royal Purple were 12’s.
 
BTW….”trying to convince myself” isn’t required
I don't think you're really going to convince many people that a 15% leak is something to just accept and be cool about. Maybe some of the people that don't think an oil filter is very important to start with. But you obviously picked a filter with a claimed high ISO 4548-12 efficiency for a reason. Would you rather choose a filter that's 84% @ 20u efficient instead?

I’m open to any empirical data indicating this filter fails to do what the manufacturer claims. What little empirical data that WE DO HAVE …you dismiss as “inconclusive” even though they show the filter to be superior.
Who's "they"?

After all, in those instances …Brand Ranks and used oil particle analysis…..it COULD HAVE GONE THE OTHER WAY!
No doubt all the bashers would have accepted those results with open arms.🙄
You still gloss over that the Boss which is ISO rated at 99% >46u per the official M+H spec sheet and also reflected for the most part in Andrew's ISO efficiency test ranks right up with the Champ Lab made filters like the Ultra and Endurance in the BR test ranking. You ever consider that maybe they are all about the same because the ones with ruffled and maybe also warped leaf springs are leaking and causing their efficiency to drop? Then there's the whole questionable methodology of Blackstone's particle count test. Like said, the best way to see the impact of an internal leak on efficiency would be to do an official ISO 4548-12 test on a known non-leaker and a known leaker to see the difference. The PC model pretty much tells what the outcome would be since the efficiency is based on particles up stream vs particles down stream after the oil goes through the media.
 
Fram states in writing the efficiency has not changed, on boxes and on the website. They have to test assembled oil filters for efficiency.
For me I guess that’s enough, but I wont be buying more to be only disappointed by other factors.
 
As stated before, when Fram came out with the Endurance a couple years ago, the ones they tested per ISO 4548-12 could have had perfectly stamped leaf springs and they didn't leak enough to impact the efficiency, and therefore came in as advertised. There is no way that a filter with 15% internal leakage is still going to come in at 99% @ 20u. Once they qualify the filters, they aren't going to keep ISO testing them, so if things like shoddy leaf springs that are ruffled and warped make it into production they aren't going to find it through ISO testing. They would only catch is by looking, or reading a chat board like this to see what's going on with filters sold to consumers.
 
Dead horse. 🙃
"I don't typically use leaky filters, but when I do I chose high efficiency leaky filters" 😄
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom