Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister

[ZeeOSix]

Clearly if 10% leaks into the 90% filtered stream on one pass, the unfiltered oil circulating will be 1% into 99% filtered next pass, and then 0.1% and 99.9% filtered oil on the next circulation.

There is always new contamination being generated, so a constant leakage past the media is more detrimental than what you might think with your multi-pass "bypass" type filtration on a full-flow oil filter.

 

[Mewbs]

Clearly if 10% leaks into the 90% filtered stream on one pass, the unfiltered oil circulating will be 1% into 99% filtered next pass, and then 0.1% and 99.9% filtered oil on the next circulation. If circulations are 3 per minute, how much dirt is manufactured or ingested from the air in one minute into the total amount of oil? Lets have it in milligrams. Maybe it has to be micrograms. Maybe less. All wont be harmful, divide total by 2 to err favoring harmful particles. Particles dispersed in 5 quarts of oil. Seems like the long term filtration will be excellent even with the media with light spots. As long as the particle intrusion is low and realistic.

Purolator One or Boss if desire a USA made. 99%@20 for the One, and 99+%@25 for Boss. I got one of each kind under $10 on discount thru Amazon. Fresh dates, one was put on a car this week. Maybe the Boss was $11 but don’t think so. They run sales sporadically.

Here is my Exhibit "A" of something related, a 15 micron absolute filter with a manufacturing defect that Wearcheck picked up some leakage of larger particles in their particle count test and was physically confirmed on filter teardown. The leak path wasn't so big since it was a single pleat that somehow got crush folded during assembly.

Post in thread 'Donaldson P551132 Cut open - New'

Aug 14, 2024

Got a particle count report from WearCheck this morning on the oil running this filter for the second half of 5K at 10,600 miles. Oil was directly sampled from the clean side of the filter.

ISO4406 cleanliness code : 19/18/15

Particle count > particle size range

3158 > 4 microns
1720 > 6 microns
293 > 14 microns
99 > 21 microns
15 > 38 microns
2 > 71 microns

I delayed in cutting this filter open since I was shopping around for a microscope or probably sending it to a special guest.
Will post the full oil analysis report later at the appropriate section.


Pictures of the...

• Mewbs

• 

Post in thread 'Donaldson P551132 Cut open - New'

Aug 14, 2024

Filter cut open. Unfortunately found a small defect on one of the pleats was poorly potted with a fold on the end, probably explains how small amounts of larger particles got through. Filter did its job in keeping smaller micron particles in check the least.

• Mewbs

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• 

 

[ZeeOSix]

Purolator One or Boss if desire a USA made. 99%@20 for the One, and 99+%@25 for Boss.

Again ... these claims on their website do not correlate with the official M+H spec sheets for the same filter models.

Website:
https://www.purolatornow.com/en/products/oil-filters/purolator-one.html
*Based on ISO 4548-12 at 20 microns on PL30001

But ... 99% @ 25u per ISO 4548-12.

Website:
https://www.purolatornow.com/en/products/oil-filters/purolator-boss.html
*Based on ISO 4548-12 at 25 microns on PBL30001

But ... 99% >46u per ISO 4548-12.

 

[Fair enough]

Here is my Exhibit "A" of something related, a 15 micron absolute filter with a manufacturing defect that Wearcheck picked up some leakage of larger particles in their particle count test and was physically confirmed on filter teardown. The leak path wasn't so big since it was a single pleat that somehow got crush folded during assembly.

Post in thread 'Donaldson P551132 Cut open - New'

Aug 14, 2024

Got a particle count report from WearCheck this morning on the oil running this filter for the second half of 5K at 10,600 miles. Oil was directly sampled from the clean side of the filter.

ISO4406 cleanliness code : 19/18/15

Particle count > particle size range

3158 > 4 microns
1720 > 6 microns
293 > 14 microns
99 > 21 microns
15 > 38 microns
2 > 71 microns

I delayed in cutting this filter open since I was shopping around for a microscope or probably sending it to a special guest.
Will post the full oil analysis report later at the appropriate section.


Pictures of the...

• Mewbs

• 

Post in thread 'Donaldson P551132 Cut open - New'

Aug 14, 2024

Filter cut open. Unfortunately found a small defect on one of the pleats was poorly potted with a fold on the end, probably explains how small amounts of larger particles got through. Filter did its job in keeping smaller micron particles in check the least.

• Mewbs

• 
• 

Assuming 100 hours use, @ 3gpm that’s 18,000 gal of oil passed through the filter. If the oil capcity is 6 qts, then all the oil circulates once in 30 seconds. If the leak is 10%, the next 30 seconds would see 0.1% not filtered. appx., the oil is streaming constantly. It seems an absolute 15 micron filter should still see no particles under 15 at the end of test, even with a10% tear.
I don’t have the motivation to stay on it, because, it’s oil filters. I stick one on, more often than most people, drive easy, then trade the car in at some point and take a beating on it. Someone else gets my car care. They drive the car to the junkyard.
Whatever people like to conclude, fine. But explain how circulations and added particles don’t matter. It has to be numbers. It actually could be air dust getting in the test sample and particles show up in low numbers, air is usually pretty dirty.

 

[dkryan]

The Amsoil EAO filters are rated for 25,000 miles

Yeah, and I ordered three EA15K09 oil filters from the Amsoil warehouse.

Upon receipt, I discovered I had missed the fact they are 15k mile filters, not 25k mile filters.

No worries, I will use them for my next two 10k mile HPL OCIs.

Unless their quality control has gone into a flat spin recently I should be fine.

 

[tolian21]

What is the situation with PuralatorOne and flashlight test, has it been done? It looks like a decent filter

 

[Glenda W.]

What is the situation with PuralatorOne and flashlight test, has it been done? It looks like a decent filter

The PurolatorOne uses a bypass design that to my knowledge hasn’t shown leaks. The concerns have been louvers not fully formed and wavy torn media. Louvers are easy to check before purchase. Torn media would only be found after use.

 

[Bkdc]

The PurolatorOne uses a bypass design that to my knowledge hasn’t shown leaks. The concerns have been louvers not fully formed and wavy torn media. Louvers are easy to check before purchase. Torn media would only be found after use.

I just did some home measurements of several bypass filters at home, and the M&H Purolator design was wanting. The valve is not coiled spring and this the valve does not have a reliable opening pressures that reponds the way a coil spring does via Hooke’s law. Valve opened (tiny sliver of a leak) at extremely low pressures essentially creating a low flow leak at very low pressure with the size of leak dependent on pressure. Also, unlike a coiled spring, I am concerned that the valve steel would fatigue over time and open at lower and lower pressures.
I epoxy dyneema cording to the valve plate inside the filter and then tie it to static weight and divide by surface area of the opening giving a static measurement.

 

[Glenda W.]

I just did some home measurements of several bypass filters at home, and the M&H Purolator design was wanting. The valve is not coiled spring and this the valve does not have a reliable opening pressures that reponds the way a coil spring does via Hooke’s law. Valve opened (tiny sliver of a leak) at extremely low pressures essentially creating a low flow leak at very low pressure with the size of leak dependent on pressure. Also, unlike a coiled spring, I am concerned that the valve steel would fatigue over time and open at lower and lower pressures.
I epoxy dyneema cording to the valve plate inside the filter and then tie it to static weight and divide by surface area of the opening giving a static measurement.

Thanks! Good to know

 

[Fair enough]

I just did some home measurements of several bypass filters at home, and the M&H Purolator design was wanting. The valve is not coiled spring and this the valve does not have a reliable opening pressures that reponds the way a coil spring does via Hooke’s law. Valve opened (tiny sliver of a leak) at extremely low pressures essentially creating a low flow leak at very low pressure with the size of leak dependent on pressure. Also, unlike a coiled spring, I am concerned that the valve steel would fatigue over time and open at lower and lower pressures.
I epoxy dyneema cording to the valve plate inside the filter and then tie it to static weight and divide by surface area of the opening giving a static measurement.

It may be like this, which looks like one coil of a coiled spring. Denso made the same kind of spring like Purolator does now, for Toyota filters in the past.

 

[ChrisD46]

Even with a possible leak - wouldn’t the great filtering and rapid oil turnover of the Fram Endurance mitigate any cause for concern ?

 

[Glenda W.]

Even with a possible leak - wouldn’t the great filtering and rapid oil turnover of the Fram Endurance mitigate any cause for concern ?

No.

 

[Sayjac]

The PurolatorOne uses a bypass design that to my knowledge hasn’t shown leaks.

Since I've started light testing with c&p mostly for kicks mostly, that's exactly the results I've found. Unsurprisingly no light seen. As for the flat spring's reliability, I'm completely confident in the long time Purolator design. And I default to @AuthorEditor original testing of the flat spring design HERE. Also, there's no way to know precisely when or how much the valve opens in situ real world use. Afaik, member Jim Allen testing with gauges is the only one that has been able to give some idea when bypass occurs. Anything beyond that 'I' classify with the WC Fields saying, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance........."

 

[Glenda W.]

Since I've started light testing with c&p mostly for kicks mostly, that's exactly the results I've found. Unsurprisingly no light seen. As for the flat spring's reliability, I'm completely confident in the long time Purolator design. And I default to @AuthorEditor original testing of the flat spring design HERE. Also, there's no way to know precisely when or how much the valve opens in situ real world use. Afaik, member Jim Allen testing with gauges is the only one that has been able to give some idea when bypass occurs. Anything beyond that 'I' classify with the WC Fields saying, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance........."

Great thread! Thanks

 

[Fair enough]

I tried to move the bypass disk inside the Boss I have, and it is quite tightly compressed to the underneath part. I did move it, but the spring definitely is pulling, not resting.

 

[Bill7]

I’m personally not comfortable with it, others don’t mind. I don’t like paying a premium price for non premium build quality. Many Asian OEM filters are in the 50%@20 micron range and those engines can last many hundreds of thousands of miles. My guess is the leakers are in this range but no way to really know without ISO testing.

I just double checked my stash of 7317 and 4967 oil filters. Sadly, I have a lot of Fram filters left (most bought late 2023 and various times in 2024). So it's likely they all are the leakers. Thanks for the "ball park figure" of maybe 50% efficiency @ 20 microns with the leak. Not ideal, but I can just pretend they are all Toyota OEM filters with 50% efficiency @ 20 microns and use them up.

I think stocking up on things is a terrible idea in retrospect, as you never know when one of the best filters on the planet (a Fram Ultra) will become one of the worst filters on the planet without warning.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I just double checked my stash of 7317 and 4967 oil filters. Sadly, I have a lot of Fram filters left (most bought late 2023 and various times in 2024). So it's likely they all are the leakers.

What models … XG, TG, PH ?

If they are fiber end caps I would not be that concerned, regardless of the few fiber end cap filters shown in flashlight tests because there's a 100% seal impression shown on those examples. The leaf spring needs to be in the same exact position on the end cap as assembled before cutting open for the light test, and if not the seal test is invalid.

 

[Bill7]

What models … XG, TG, PH ?

If they are fiber end caps I would not be that concerned, regardless of the few fiber end cap filters shown in flashlight tests because there's a 100% seal impression shown on those examples. The leaf spring needs to be in the same exact position on the end cap as assembled before cutting open for the light test, and if not the seal test is invalid.

Is there a way to determine if they have fiber end caps without cutting the filter open?

For Toyota Corolla: 4 Fram Extra Guard PH4967: Purchased: 2024-07-22.

For Honda Odysseys: 26 Fram Filters.
1 Fram FE7317 Endurance: Purchased 2024-03-29.
12 Fram XG7317 Ultras: Purchased 2023-09-22.
1 Fram XG7317 Ultra: Purchased 2024-03-16.
1 Fram XG7317 Ultra: Purchased 2024-07-17.
5 Fram XG7317 Ultras: Purchased 2024-09-28.
6 Fram PH7317 Extra Guard: Purchased 2023-09-22.

From the date I purchased them, is it possible to derive if they are leakers. They were all purchased from either Amazon or Walmart.
I would assume any purchased in 2024 are the leakers?

Also, one of my 2007 Honda Odysseys has developed an engine ticking sound.
With the next 6 OCI with HPL EC30 in the 1 to 5 ratio, I planned to use Fram Ultra filters to capture all the deposits.
But maybe the deposits will escape with the oil filter leak.

 

[Deadlight]

For Toyota Corolla: 4 Fram Extra Guard PH4967: Purchased: 2024-07-22.

For Honda Odysseys: 26 Fram Filters.
1 Fram FE7317 Endurance: Purchased 2024-03-29.
12 Fram XG7317 Ultras: Purchased 2023-09-22.
1 Fram XG7317 Ultra: Purchased 2024-03-16.
1 Fram XG7317 Ultra: Purchased 2024-07-17.
5 Fram XG7317 Ultras: Purchased 2024-09-28.
6 Fram PH7317 Extra Guard: Purchased 2023-09-22.

From the date I purchased them, is it possible to derive if they are leakers. They were all purchased from either Amazon or Walmart.
I would assume any purchased in 2024 are the leakers?

Manufacture date would be much better to use than purchase date. Assuming they weren't sitting on a shelf for too long, the odds are that they are leakers.

 

[ZeeOSix]

s there a way to determine if they have fiber end caps without cutting the filter open?

For Toyota Corolla: 4 Fram Extra Guard PH4967: Purchased: 2024-07-22.

For Honda Odysseys: 26 Fram Filters.
1 Fram FE7317 Endurance: Purchased 2024-03-29.
12 Fram XG7317 Ultras: Purchased 2023-09-22.
1 Fram XG7317 Ultra: Purchased 2024-03-16.
1 Fram XG7317 Ultra: Purchased 2024-07-17.
5 Fram XG7317 Ultras: Purchased 2024-09-28.
6 Fram PH7317 Extra Guard: Purchased 2023-09-22.

The FE and XG will have metal end caps of course. Most likely with ruffled leaf springs, lol.

The PH filters will have fiber end caps. There was at least one PH that had metal end caps, and it was the PH4967 model ... but that's a rare case for the PH line. Is your PH4967 and eCore center tube? If so, then it probably has metal end caps. I know the PH7317 has fiber end caps.

F

Thread 'Oil filter downsizing and Cut of Fram PH4967'

Dec 30, 2024

-bypass spring, no wavy metal on this one. Very minor ruffles.
-Smaller left to right Boss 4967, Fram 4967, Toyota N1, and Pentius 4967.
-cut filter, gap is bypass spring pop up
-general construction PH 4967
-side view with bright light from below
- opposite side bright light
Spring pressed hard into end cap. The protrusions prevent the spring from fully seating, two black spots on each side are the protrusion contacts. There would be a better seal if protrusions allowed full contact.
Element too small for my liking on this filter, big gap in can, but maybe not that important.
Not bad...

• Fair enough

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