Fram Endurance every other OCI vs Microgard Select every OCI on Hondas?

[ZeeOSix]

I believe eventually the Endurance line will be removed from every Walmart, including online and be forgotten.

Could be since it is a Walmart exclusive oil filter. So is the Purolator 20K. If sales fall off nation wide, Walmart could stop selling it everywhere.

 

[Ronn]

Could be since it is a Walmart exclusive oil filter. So is the Purolator 20K. If sales fall off nation wide, Walmart could stop selling it everywhere.

I’m now intrigued how this will play out.
Fram isn’t going to stand by and let Walmart dictate what’s next as far as their own product line. Let “The Market” decide…it’s the “final arbiter”.
If Fram can’t sell enough Endurance…so be it … they’ll have to come up with a replacement.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I’m now intrigued how this will play out.
Fram isn’t going to stand by and let Walmart dictate what’s next as far as their own product line. Let “The Market” decide…it’s the “final arbiter”.
If Fram can’t sell enough Endurance…so be it … they’ll have to come up with a replacement.

Walmart made a contract with Fram to sell the Endurance exclusively. Walmart is driving that ship. If they don't want to sell the Endurance any more because of bad sales, then they can say to Fram the contract is over. Or is sales are low maybe Walmart makes a deal to pay less wholesale for them so Walmart can drop the price to increase sales. If Walmart did break the contract, then Fram could maybe start selling them through other auto parts stores and Amazon, etc if they still wanted to make the Endurance.

 

[Ronn]

Walmart made a contract with Fram to sell the Endurance exclusively. Walmart is driving that ship. If they don't want to sell the Endurance any more because of bad sales, then they can say to Fram the contract is over. Or is sales are low maybe Walmart makes a deal to pay less wholesale for them so Walmart can drop the price to increase sales. If Walmart did break the contract, then Fram could maybe start selling them through other auto parts stores and Amazon, etc if they still wanted to make the Endurance.

 

[Ronn]

Pretty obvious Fram will find other “venues” to sell its existing inventory. That would simply entail ending the exclusive arrangement with WM. If Fram feels Endurance has “issues” it will create an updated product. Stay tuned.
I’m still a fan until convinced otherwise.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Pretty obvious Fram will find other “venues” to sell its existing inventory. That would simply entail ending the exclusive arrangement with WM. If Fram feels Endurance has “issues” it will create an updated product. Stay tuned.

Might find them on Rock Auto. I wish they would fix the leaf spring seal interface. Either get someone who can stamp them without ruffles, and/or put the fiber gasket on the end cap like the OG Ultra had. But that would cost more money to make, so doubt that change would happen.

I’m still a fan until convinced otherwise.

Obviously.

 

[Ronn]

Might find them on Rock Auto. I wish they would fix the leaf spring seal interface. Either get someone who can stamp them without ruffles, and/or put the fiber gasket on the end cap like the OG Ultra had. But that would cost more money to make, so doubt that change would happen.


Obviously.

I use Rock Auto regularly
My take
You’ll see them on Amazon ..,Auto Zone …Advanced Auto Parts by year end

 

[Glenda W.]

It’s really to bad First Brands changed the Ultra/Titanium. The OG was the best filter made for a very long time. Even after the downgrade I would search AAP for wire backed Titaniums with the pink media. After the price increase to $16.99 I decided it wasn’t worth it. I then switched to the Endurance for a short time. Now with all the QC issues we’re seeing here with the Endurance(and other First Brands filters) like the ruffles, closed louvers, off centered ADBV’s, metal slivers, sloppy glue, badly cut threads, etc. it’s a gamble. Other 99%@20 micron filters are easily available in the $5-$6 range that have had the same consistent design and QC for over 15 years now. That’s the direction I decided to go, at least until those change. It’s not wise to get attached to a certain filter or brand these days, things change to fast.

 

[Glenda W.]

I’m not picking on the Endurance in particular as it’s a problem throughout the Fram and Champ Labs lineup(First Brands). Here’s WCW’s latest take on the leakage problem we’re also seeing.

 

[Glenda W.]

“Should have repeated his testing”
Lol “Haters Will Be Haters”
Link for latest QC on this filter at “Last Brands” ??
Here’s the latest vid on Endurance from Dec last year. He preferred BOSS, but it’s a detailed Cut Up.
Also a screen shot showing ruffles on bypass spring plate.
You Stated:
1. Test is not accurate
2. The under performing filters were defective
3. Errors were made

*Were RP NAPA and WIX all defective? They were also tested and compared as inferior.
*How was test “Not Accurate”?
*What errors were made?



View attachment 287853

Looks like Zee covered all my points perfectly in post #35.

If you actually knew me I don’t “Hate”. It’s ok to not agree. To many unanswered questions with BR results that don’t make sense to me vs official ISO testing. Something is off and I’m just giving ideas why. I’m 100% sure a fully functional, not defective Endurance is one of, if not the best filters available and don’t blame you for using it. I’m not comfortable using one or supporting a company with poor QC. The only thing I can do as a consumer is not buy the product and make others aware with my C&P’s to support the BITOG community. M+H has gone down the same road as First Brands, I call em like I see em and don’t play favorites.

 

[Fair enough]

I’m not picking on the Endurance in particular as it’s a problem throughout the Fram and Champ Labs lineup(First Brands). Here’s WCW’s latest take on the leakage problem we’re also seeing.

Purolator looks great doesn’t it.
I cut my Pentius PLXL open this morning. Never going to get around to using it. Most perfect media spacing and cleanliness I’ve ever seen. Can is super strong and thick. Adbv beautiful. All fit and finish remarkably good, except the center holes punching a little rough. Less media than a Toyota, very few light spots through media, but some. Toyota media thicker it seems, more light spots.

 

[Ronn]

From Fram website:
Endurance FE
“Designed for use with synthetic oils. Metal Screen Back construction for enhanced durability. Fully synthetic blend media provides 99%+ filtration efficiency.* “
Foot note *>>>

“FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of FE8A, FE3387A and FE4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or EG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns.”

Do you think those Endurance filters tested (FE) “or Equivalent TG or EG models” (BTW…with inferior partial synthetic media)….. having IDENTICAL BYPASS DESIGNS….had the same flaw as pointed out in the above video?
We can’t say with certainty BUT…,,
Common sense should give you the answer.

 

[Glenda W.]

Purolator looks great doesn’t it.
I cut my Pentius PLXL open this morning. Never going to get around to using it. Most perfect media spacing and cleanliness I’ve ever seen. Can is super strong and thick. Adbv beautiful. All fit and finish remarkably good, except the center holes punching a little rough. Less media than a Toyota, very few light spots through media, but some. Toyota media thicker it seems, more light spots.

Yes! Looks excellent.

 

[Glenda W.]

From Fram website:
Endurance FE
“Designed for use with synthetic oils. Metal Screen Back construction for enhanced durability. Fully synthetic blend media provides 99%+ filtration efficiency.* “
Foot note *>>>

“FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of FE8A, FE3387A and FE4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or EG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns.”

Do you think those Endurance filters tested (FE) “or Equivalent TG or EG models” (BTW…with inferior partial synthetic media)….. having IDENTICAL BYPASS DESIGNS….had the same flaw as pointed out in the above video?
We can’t say with certainty BUT…,,
Common sense should give you the answer.

View attachment 287989

View attachment 287990

TG and EG have fiber end caps which tend to seal very well with the leaf spring, ruffles or not. Combine that with ecore center tubes and they’re currently Frams least prone to problems filters.

 

[Ronn]

TG and EG have fiber end caps which tend to seal very well with the leaf spring, ruffles or not. Combine that with ecore center tubes and they’re currently Frams least prone to problems filters.

Ok… so that’s a possibility…but we don’t know that for a fact. Keep in mind those weren’t FULL synthetic like the FE.
Are you also assuming the SPECIFIC ENDURANCE FE MODLES sited were not actually tested? Why identify SPECIFIC models, unless they tested them?
That seems to be the opinion of others here in order to blunt the validity of this test as it applies to the FE……implying a devious strategy to “bootstrap “ these results to other filter results (TG) without actually having tested the actual FE models. You want to go to “The Dark Side” …fine and dandy.
We’ve “been here before”…so I’ll let this subject end here.

 

[Glenda W.]

Ok… so that’s a possibility…but we don’t know that for a fact. Keep in mind those weren’t FULL synthetic like the FE.
Are you also assuming the SPECIFIC ENDURANCE FE MODLES sited were not actually tested?

No.

I’m saying BR tests aren’t lining up with official ISO testing. All 99%@20 micron filters should have the same results and they don’t. I don’t know why, do you?

Known identical filters aren’t testing the same. I don’t know why, do you?

Common sense would say BR’s results aren’t accurate or something else is going on.

 

[Mechanician]

I’m not picking on the Endurance in particular as it’s a problem throughout the Fram and Champ Labs lineup(First Brands). Here’s WCW’s latest take on the leakage problem we’re also seeing.

This WCW testing is not trustworthy as well.
He points out the nubs on the inside of the cartridge opening in the video, and you can see he's had it in at least three different positions by the witness marks on the valve assembly.
My experience is once it has been removed, pushing it back in distorts it greatly from the factory state. By the third time I had reassembled the one I experimented with, the sealing surfaces were noticeably distorted from original..
It's all a big question mark at this point. Some are ruffled and obviously never sealed from the factory, and others may have originally sealed.
Who wants questions about their filter? Not me.

 

[Glenda W.]

This WCW testing is not trustworthy as well.
He points out the nubs on the inside of the cartridge opening in the video, and you can see he's had it in at least three different positions by the witness marks on the valve assembly.
My experience is once it has been removed, pushing it back in distorts it greatly from the factory state. By the third time I had reassembled the one I experimented with, the sealing surfaces were noticeably distorted from original..
It's all a big question mark at this point. Some are ruffled and obviously never sealed from the factory, and others may have originally sealed.
Who wants questions about their filter? Not me.

I agree 100%. This is exactly why I did not disturb mine I tested here. I took extreme care not to touch the leaf spring before testing. I even went to the extreme of testing one while still in the can.

Thread 'Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister'

Sep 4, 2024

Tested on a new Fram Endurance FE7317 purchased at Walmart.

The question was “Does the Fram Endrance still have a gap in the bypass spring while under pressure?”

The answer is yes on this one. Also has a gap outside of the canister as Whip City and Sayjac have already found. I also carefully put some drops of oil on the gap areas to check every 10 minutes. It only took seconds for the oil to leak through with gravity.

• Glenda W.
• Replies: 1,162
• Forum: Engine Oil Filters

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[edhackett]

From Fram website:
Endurance FE
“Designed for use with synthetic oils. Metal Screen Back construction for enhanced durability. Fully synthetic blend media provides 99%+ filtration efficiency.* “
Foot note *>>>

“FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of FE8A, FE3387A and FE4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or EG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns.”

Do you think those Endurance filters tested (FE) “or Equivalent TG or EG models” (BTW…with inferior partial synthetic media)….. having IDENTICAL BYPASS DESIGNS….had the same flaw as pointed out in the above video?
We can’t say with certainty BUT…,,
Common sense should give you the answer.

ISO 4548-12 gives the manufacturer the option of testing just the media or the filter with or without the bypass. Which of the three methods did FRAM use to arrive at their numbers?

Ed

 

[factorytuned2012]

So I've depleted my stock of OG Fram Ultras for Honda applications and it's about time for my next change. I have a 2016 Pilot (115k) and 2019 Accord Hybrid (255k) - both use the Fram 7317 size.

Both seem to be running well and look clean inside the oil fill hole. According to Honda's maintenance minder, you are supposed to change the filter every other time.

Option one: Fram Endurance every other OCI, per the MM. The FE looks like a great quality filter that addresses the shortcomings of the new Ultra. Neither car is likely to be dumping a lot of contaminants to be filtered out. The FE tests well at filtration efficiency. I think these are about $13 each.

Option two: Microgard Select each OCI. I don't think it's quite as good at filtering as the FE, but it's well-liked on this forum. Seems to have consistently good quality construction. I can get a dozen from Ebay for $60, so even at every OCI it's a little cheaper than the Endurance.

I am planning on changing when the MM hits 15% and probably using Kirkland 0w20.

I want to give my vehicles a long life but I don't want to spend unnecessary money on maintenance. Which of these two options (which are both pretty cheap) will give me the least amount of wear over the next 100k miles?

How about a super tech oil filter? Reliable good construction and won’t break the bank.