Fram Efficiency Ratings for 5 Models... Mel and Others??

[Big O Dave]

One of my fleet clients wanted to know what the "real" scoop is on Frams, and of course, I'm interested, too, so I called Fram's engineering department and they emailed the following info to me. You experts on beta ratios, filter efficiency, etc., chime in and tell us how relevant and useful these data are:

code:

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Single pass particle retention efficiency of the models is:







HP1 98% at 40 - 50 microns max flow 10 gpm



XG8A 96% at 10 - 20 microns max flow 3-4 gpm



TG8A 98% at 10 - 20 microns max flow 3-4 gpm



PH8A 96% at 10 - 20 microns max flow 3-4 gpm



PH977A 98% at 20 - 27 microns max flow 3 gpm

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[Ugly3]

Those flow rates look really low.

 

[edwardh1]

not really its going thru small oil passages

3 gpm is a lot of oil

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ugly3:
Those flow rates look really low.

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They are reasonable rates to test filtering efficiency. They look about like the rates you would see under normal driving conditions which is where your engine operates most of the time, so filtration at that flow rate is the most important.

Unfortunately, the band they put on filtration efficiency makes it impossible to compare with industry standard ratings.

 

[Big O Dave]

The efficiency percentages aren't at those flow rates, those are the maximum flow rates for the filters, period. The one for the PH977A seems to be conservative, considering is has the same tube and hole size as the HP1, just longer. I bet it flows more than 3 gpm.

 

[T-Keith]

They are changing the particle size to make their efficiencies look good.

 

[Ugly3]

Well, all I know for sure is that my oil pump put out 3.5 gallons per minute per 1,000 RPM. I reach max oil pressure at about 2,000 RPM so I am seeing about 7 GPM going through the oil filter.

 

[Gary Allan]

That's a pretty high volume oil pump, Ugly3. I think my HV is rated at something like 8 gpm @ 3000 rpm ..and mine is double the vane depth of the OEM. I think that 3-4 gallons would probably, as XS650 says, be normal/average/typical.

Those Fram spec's don't look too shabby. No one has really ever said/proved that they do a lousy job at filtering. The only real complaint is that they cost too much for what they deliver in quality construction. You can feel that you're getting more for your money in other filters.

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
That's a pretty high volume oil pump, Ugly3. I think my HV is rated at something like 8 gpm @ 3000 rpm ..and mine is double the vane depth of the OEM. I think that 3-4 gallons would probably, as XS650 says, be normal/average/typical.

Those Fram spec's don't look too shabby. No one has really ever said/proved that they do a lousy job at filtering. The only real complaint is that they cost too much for what they deliver in quality construction. You can feel that you're getting more for your money in other filters.

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All I can tell you is that I contacted an oil pump maker and asked what the flow rate was for my engine (Chrysler 3800 v6) and they told me 3.5 GPM per 1000 RPM. They also indicated that most applications reach max oil pressure between 1,800 RPM and 3,000 RPM so the max flow would be in the range of 6 to 10 GPM.

 

[Ken2]

The pump may put out that much, but can the engine take it all? The pump has a pressure relief valve that dumps part of the output back to the sump when the pressure reaches the set point.


Ken

 

[Filter guy]

Big O Dave..

Those "stats' are interesting from Fram. Nice and simple.

However, it would be nice to know how they came up with their results.

They are touting "single pass efficiency" when the industry uses multi-pass.

There are two ways to do single pass, either through ACfine test dust which can give you varying results.( although lab people will tell you there's a newer SAE/ISO test dust that is being used. I'll guess these numbers from Fram may be older tests).

The other way is to use glass beads. Very expensive to do. But more effective at rating a filter.

So i'll assume they used test dust.

So their tests results look nice. Not bad. Because the test is run on a flat sheet of media. Not an "element". Multi pass gives a person a bit more information on a complete filter over single pass.

 

[beachracer]

Gone Racing.

[ September 22, 2005, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Ugly3]

Here is what Filter Guy reported for his e-core filter with 6700 miles on it.

Flow Rate - gpm Sample #1 - psi

2--------------------0.6
3--------------------1.0
6--------------------2.0
9--------------------3.0
12-------------------4.2
15-------------------5.6
18-------------------7.0

Meaning there was an 18 GPM flow with 7 PSID. That is a little more than I would have expected but seeing as how it did not filter very well I guess maybe the flow would be a little higher.

 

[Big O Dave]

Ug, is that PSI or PSID? I'm asking because I believe that the Ford spec for the PSID on the FL-1A is 8-11 PSID before the bypass opens.

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ugly3:
Here is what Filter Guy reported for his e-core filter with 6700 miles on it.

Flow Rate - gpm Sample #1 - psi

2--------------------0.6
3--------------------1.0
6--------------------2.0
9--------------------3.0
12-------------------4.2
15-------------------5.6
18-------------------7.0

Meaning there was an 18 GPM flow with 7 PSID. That is a little more than I would have expected but seeing as how it did not filter very well I guess maybe the flow would be a little higher.

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But this wasn't a single pass test.

So you're not comparing apples to apples.

This is a flow test which determines how "plugged" the media is. Or with a new element what the "restriction" is.

Each of those gpm's was an actual test...

Not a "max" like what Fram did in their single pass.

 

[Ugly3]

I am getting more confused than ever. Fram says the "max" flow thru thier filter is 4 GPM. Melling says my pump put out 3.5 GPM at 1,000 RPM. FG indicates his filter with 6,700 miles on it still actually flows 18 GPM at 7 PSI or PSID. Still seems to me that 4 GPM "max" flow is really low. What am I missing here?

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, if you recall Bob's filter test, we saw that Fram was more restrictive than some other filters. This is in spite of it not having as fine a filtration as the ones it was compared to (IIRC).

The lesson for you, Ugly3, is never use a Fram

Your Melling pump must be an HV...not typical for any domestic Iron. Depending on your relief threshold ..you could probably use one of those VW spec'd 30 psid bypass filters.

Also consider that your pump cannot just be in relief @ 3000 rpm ..at least without being qualified. It would have to be visc dependant. You'll reach relief earlier with a 40 weight ..then with a 20 weight ..or at whatever the effective visc is due to temp.

 

[Big O Dave]

It just occured to me that we don't know at what temperature the oil is, for Fram's max GPM.

I was just reading the "Grease" spreadsheet, and he mentioned that all of his flow ratings were taken at 70F, and at actual engine operating temperature, all flows would be MUCH higher.

His flow ratings for Frams fell roughly in line with Fram's max flow ratings, so perhaps they used an oil with a viscosity and temp close to what Grease used.

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Well, if you recall Bob's filter test, we saw that Fram was more restrictive than some other filters. This is in spite of it not having as fine a filtration as the ones it was compared to (IIRC).

The lesson for you, Ugly3, is never use a Fram

Your Melling pump must be an HV...not typical for any domestic Iron. Depending on your relief threshold ..you could probably use one of those VW spec'd 30 psid bypass filters.

Also consider that your pump cannot just be in relief @ 3000 rpm ..at least without being qualified. It would have to be visc dependant. You'll reach relief earlier with a 40 weight ..then with a 20 weight ..or at whatever the effective visc is due to temp.

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I wrote to Melling again to confirm the flow rate. I will let you know what I find out.

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Big O Dave:
It just occured to me that we don't know at what temperature the oil is, for Fram's max GPM.

I was just reading the "Grease" spreadsheet, and he mentioned that all of his flow ratings were taken at 70F, and at actual engine operating temperature, all flows would be MUCH higher.

His flow ratings for Frams fell roughly in line with Fram's max flow ratings, so perhaps they used an oil with a viscosity and temp close to what Grease used.

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Per the Mercruiser study the flow rate for the most restrictive filter is 1.1 gallons per minute at 10 PSI and 70F. The temperature and viscosity chart suggests a factor of 10x by raising the temp from 70F to 200F. This suggests an 11 gallon per minute flow at 10 PSI and 200F. Increasing the oil pressure to 20# increases the flow rate by a little more than double in the Mercruiser study. The 11 gallon per minute flow rate now increases to ~22 gallons per minute at 200F and 20# of oil pressure.