this attitude of "well if it hasnt caused any engine failures it cant be that bad.." is so similar to my families if it aint broke dont fix it.. meaning eh.. why do i need an oil change.. it drives fine.. why change coolant.. my car isnt overheating.. its just moronic.. for the last time, a fram filter probably will not cause engine failure.. but if you want to overpay for a subpar product, be my guest.
Fram bashers?
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I can't cite exact information, but sometime in the early-mid 1990s Frams were banned by one motorcycle racing organization, AMA, IIRC. Same reason.
I doubt that any of those Fram filter failures on race engines did the engines any good. Or the bodywork, or the driver/riders shorts
Just to beat the Fram appologists to the punch... the MC engines used standard filters and were basically lightly modified sport bike engines, much closer to stock than race car engines.
We should thank the Fram appologists for bringin this up again. When they do it always brings out a bit of Fram history that may save some new poor soul from using them.
I have seen more than one fram filter blow apart. That is fact! Seen similar filters run just as hard and not blow. Fram are the only ones I have seen grenade itself.
The ban of Frams by at least two racing organizations because of their weak exploding cans (which I saw collapse in my own hands when I tried to cut one open, unlike any other brand I've done so far) does not count as "real" information for you? How much Allied Signal stock do you own?
A guy who worked for me until not long ago used to race "crotch rockets" as he called them. Whatever organization he raced in had forbidden the use of Frams.
Both what I've seen between my own two hands, and what I've heard from others (corroborated) is plenty real as far as I'm concerned.
People have posted that they have seen Fram elements that have been found with large holes before they were used, and after they were used. Also there have been common reports of failed ADBV valves, and reports of burst filters with Frams being banned by at least two racing organizations. What more do you want, a condemnation of Fram by the moral majority?
Please, use Frams on everything you own.
Keep one someplace where it will be shielded from visible radiation from the sun too.
Enjoy your Fram filters. Protect them all from sunlight.
You might at least come up with a logical argument. Of course, not everyone has seen a Fram explode. That certainly doesn't they don't explode. And I guess I must have been hallucinating when the Fram I was dissecting collapsed in my own two hands (unlike other brands...). Better still, maybe T-Keith and I are just lying about this, being part of the conspiracy to unfairly beat up on Fram. Of course, people own cameras. But how often are they carrying them around when they go to check out the muffled pop from under the hood that was followed by an immediate loss of oil pressure? But maybe the lack of pictures so far makes since because obviously all of us who have the gumption to criticize Fram must be: 1) lying, and 2) taking part in the big conspiracy to slander that wonderful product.
I'm not arguing either position. I was just stating there doesn't seem to be much proof on either side of the argument.
You are correct...anything is possible.
I'm not sure I ever thought you were hallucinating. There's just no way to confirm your story. However, pictures would at least be one more piece of data.
People do lie.
Is this a common occurence? If so, it should be documanted somewhere. For example, the Honda CRV Fires . Although there have only been 71 "incidents," it is documented.
Surely Fram has sold more oil filters than Honda has sold 2003 & 2004 CRV's. If the exploding can is a common occurence, I would expect it to be documented.
Never said anyone was lying. It's the lack of data I have a problem with.
Ummm, did you miss my post? I offered to buy a Fram and run it on my truck followed by a Motorcraft, doing a used oil analysis with both filters. All I asked was for somebody to pick up the cost of the used oil analysis.
This would provide data for all of you to argue about and if I am correct, my engine will be the one suffering from the lack of an ADBV. Must be nobody wants this data (because they fear the results?).
Unfortunately, in a forum like this, it's going to be virtually impossible to achieve total reliability of information. Heck, these days, with software like photochop, I'm sure that given an hour or so I could cut from electronic whole cloth, "documentation" of an exploded Fram that would fool 95% of those who looked at it. But I'm not going to do that. Yes, you're right, people do lie. On the other hand, I hope you can understand my irritation with your barely implicit rejection of the information I've offered about Fram (to say nothing of the info offered by the others). I haven't survived 21 years as a Marine officer and become a Colonel because I feed people lines of crap. You don't have to accept my statements about my experience dissecting a Fram, but I can assure you, that can did collapse as I stated. In addition, while I certainly understand that legends can take on a self-perpetuating life of their own, it is my assessment, especially with my own hand-on, non-disastrous experience with Frams, that they are of significantly lesser quality than almost anything else on the market. On the other hand, to be perfectly fair, long before I became "enlightened," I actually used Frams for four or five years, with no observable bad effects. In my mind today, however, the greater weight of the evidence, as imperfect as it may be, suggests that Fram is a weak product at best.
http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html
go down to "As you can clearly see, the filter has a hole in it."
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
go down to "I had one of these filters fail in my previous car."
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Maintenance/fluidfilter.htm
go down to "Guess what, my oil presure dropped to zero and one of the idiot lights started blinking."
The most common failure discussed seems to be that
illustrated at:
http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html
The filter media fails, holing through and/or collapsing. The catastrophic failures involve a collapse where the oil flow is blocked through the center tube.
Since a heavy canister is stronger than a thin one, a metal endplate is stronger than a cardboard one, a well-sealed thick media is stronger than a thin poorly sealed one, and since pictures of the thin canistered cardboard-end plated thin media poorly assembled Fram filters abound on the Internet, it's difficult for people who work on, engineer, and race automobiles to see a reason for using them.
Around 1992 I replaced a burned up cylinder head on a 2.2 Dodge Omni. The Fram 3614 had come apart and a piece plugged the oil hole to one of the cambearings destroying the head.
No reason to get all ruffled up over a inferior product. Fact is I don't lie. Take my word for it or not, it is up to you. I have seen for my own eyes that FRAM makes a junky filter for an unwary public. Heck, I got my boss to switch to AC Delco filter after he researched on this site. There are many professional people on this site who have the evidence and/or work in a related field to the subject matter. They know their stuff. As such professionals, they go by EVIDENCE to prove facts. Or I guess the brand loyal FRAM folks assume there might be a payoff to certain individuals to slam FRAM (Now that is a really crazy assumption).
Hey Ekpolk and others...I hope you realize I'm not trying to rile anyone up...I know that we all come here to find the best filters, oil, etc.....that's what Bob is all about.
It's the chemist in me that demands "proof"....maybe I just need to relax? =0}
But, for one last time......back into the fire...
Quite a caveat, don't you think?
Listen, I’m just taking some on the board through a little peer review…….Check the thread, I’m not advocating for Fram…….
“Go use Frams, enjoy them, put them in all you cars, etc.”
I’m not sure I understand why people are getting so upset…
Can’t we all just get along?? =0} And don't take thing so personally........
It's the chemist in me that demands "proof"....maybe I just need to relax? =0}
But, for one last time......back into the fire...
Yes I see that. Quite a hole. Wait....what's that after the asterisk... *Note: I am unaware of the vehicle that this filter came off of, or how long it was used.
Quite a caveat, don't you think?
and
Both are anecdotes once again. No pictures of busted up Frams or fried engines.
Listen, I’m just taking some on the board through a little peer review…….Check the thread, I’m not advocating for Fram…….
“Go use Frams, enjoy them, put them in all you cars, etc.”
I’m not sure I understand why people are getting so upset…
Can’t we all just get along?? =0} And don't take thing so personally........
I don't how much more proof some folks need to be convinced that Frams truly suck. I too have dissected different brands of oil filters over the yrs. The Frams's poor design, poor material quality and poor construction literally scream -"increased wear" with the potential to grenade. It's a product that has been cheapened for the sake of maximum profit and minimal protection. If someone is sick in bed with the full blown Flu do ya need a blood test and a Phd to figure out that that they feel like death warmed over?
Has anybody verified that the Honda OEM filters have the same questionable construction as found on the wall of orange?
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