Even in my little hick town, I have a number of alternatives to Fram for about the same or less. We also have a NAPA store here again. If you are looking to save your friends a buck or 2, and don't have any good alternatives, frankly there is a good chance Fram won't really hurt much. What will they get at the Iffy Lube for more dollars? I feel it would be stupid for ME to pay twice as much for a Fram as an ST at Wal-Mart. I have that choice. It sounds like you don't. I can also stock up on Purolator L15436's cheap when I am out of town because I know that is what my Ecotec needs, and I plan to keep it for a while.
Fram bashers?
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Several several years back, I had a Buick 350 and we had the oil changed and an AC filter was put on by the shop. When we got the car back, every time it was started the oil light would stay on for about 3 or 4 seconds. We drove this car for years like this and had changed the oil one more time and used the same filter (I figured scince it was a GM car that AC was the best for it.) It was the early 90's and I had just gotten my license. Same thing- the light would stay on every time it was started. I then put a Fram on it and guess what- no oil light! It was great! So I told all my buddies that Fram was the best and we all had used them. (It turns out that AC filter part number didn't call for an ADBV and this filter was mounted sideways.) From then on it was nothing but Fram!
On a sidenote- I'm sure alot of damage was done on that motor with the AC filters. I had used nothing but Frams scince then and like I said I never had any problems.
Ever scince I got the ranger, I have only used Motorcraft, and then I discovered BITOG
On a sidenote- I'm sure alot of damage was done on that motor with the AC filters. I had used nothing but Frams scince then and like I said I never had any problems.
Ever scince I got the ranger, I have only used Motorcraft, and then I discovered BITOG
Once again the Fram haters are abundant, but lack any proof at all. This gent, in the next province to me, said "I wanna hear stories from people who've seen engine damage first hand that was directly Fram filter related"
Put up or shut up y'all.
I've used all different kinds of oil (Irving, Castrol, and lately, Mobil 1) and filters (Fram, Wix, Bosche, Mann) in my cars for the last 30 years. I routinely drive 80,000km to 120,000km per year. I change oil at 10,000km to 20,000km intervals. I routinely get 400,000km to 650,000km out of my cars before giving them away. None has ever burned oil and I have had problems with only one filter. My 1986 Jetta diesel had a bad relief valve and puffed up a Wix filter--no leaks, just a nice round case.
The killer is never the filter, it's the short jaunts to the store. NEVER start a car without warming it up fully.
Put up or shut up y'all.
I've used all different kinds of oil (Irving, Castrol, and lately, Mobil 1) and filters (Fram, Wix, Bosche, Mann) in my cars for the last 30 years. I routinely drive 80,000km to 120,000km per year. I change oil at 10,000km to 20,000km intervals. I routinely get 400,000km to 650,000km out of my cars before giving them away. None has ever burned oil and I have had problems with only one filter. My 1986 Jetta diesel had a bad relief valve and puffed up a Wix filter--no leaks, just a nice round case.
The killer is never the filter, it's the short jaunts to the store. NEVER start a car without warming it up fully.
There is plenty of evidence that Fram filters are inferior. Search through and look at some of the cut open filters and the design of the ADBV. Cardboard end caps. Cheap construction.
Will a single filter ruin an engine? Probably not. Do I want to put an obviously inferior product on a vehicle that I paid a lot of hard earned money for? Absolutely not.
Buy Fram if you like. It's your business. But for others, there are better made products for about the same price.
Do you think they bleed orange when you cut them?
I've never used Fram, never had a mechanical problem due to them.
My "problem" with Fram is that they're more expensive than OE, you can get Motorcraft filters for your Ford at Wal-Mart for less, and in my case, until recently I was able to get Delco filters for my Chevy at Farm & Fleet for $2.50 on sale. The prices on them have gone up a bit, but if I catch a good sale, I can still get Delco for less than Fram. Only Mopar is more expensive than Fram, at least in my area, and I solved that problem by using Delco (and now I'll be using Napa/Wix).
So why pay more for something when the OE part, something the manufacturer of your vehicle thought was good enough to maintain the warranty by the way, is cheaper?
My "problem" with Fram is that they're more expensive than OE, you can get Motorcraft filters for your Ford at Wal-Mart for less, and in my case, until recently I was able to get Delco filters for my Chevy at Farm & Fleet for $2.50 on sale. The prices on them have gone up a bit, but if I catch a good sale, I can still get Delco for less than Fram. Only Mopar is more expensive than Fram, at least in my area, and I solved that problem by using Delco (and now I'll be using Napa/Wix).
So why pay more for something when the OE part, something the manufacturer of your vehicle thought was good enough to maintain the warranty by the way, is cheaper?
I've started cutting up filters to check on them, so I'm not passing on legend, I'm talking about what I've seen myself at the hands of my pipe cutter. I'd venture to guess that your 86 Jetta would have exploded a Fram like an overstretched baloon. Of the six filters I've cut, the Fram is the only one whose can collapsed pathetically when I tightened the pipe cutter on it. The others firmly withstood the cutting pressure and cleanly separated in two. The Fram behaved more like a soda can, at least in the size I cut.
I started this post and now I want to try to restart it. Many thanks to the gentleman from Nova Scotia - you're right they are not listening
I want to hear stories about damage that occurred to engines because they ran Fram filters.
I have read the filter studies and yes Fram do use cardboard end caps - I agree.
Around here fram IS the cheapest filter available by about a factor of 2. We do not have supertech filters and dealerships charge about 8 bucks for OEM filters.
Again, my car is wearing a NAPA Gold (wix) right now.
My room mate has gone 350 000km on nothing but Fram filters - no problems yet (also he used the cheapest oil that was on sale the week he needed an oil change - usually motomaster from Candian Tire.
so again - Please tell me stories about Fram related damage to amuse me. Do NOT tell me "frams have cardboard end caps" - I KNOW THAT ALREADY, I KNEW IT A YEAR AGO!
I want to hear stories about damage that occurred to engines because they ran Fram filters.
I have read the filter studies and yes Fram do use cardboard end caps - I agree.
Around here fram IS the cheapest filter available by about a factor of 2. We do not have supertech filters and dealerships charge about 8 bucks for OEM filters.
Again, my car is wearing a NAPA Gold (wix) right now.
My room mate has gone 350 000km on nothing but Fram filters - no problems yet (also he used the cheapest oil that was on sale the week he needed an oil change - usually motomaster from Candian Tire.
so again - Please tell me stories about Fram related damage to amuse me. Do NOT tell me "frams have cardboard end caps" - I KNOW THAT ALREADY, I KNEW IT A YEAR AGO!
People have told you plenty of other reasons for not buying the Fram. If you can't find another filter your really not trying hard enough, plenty of Canadian members have found other filter to use.
Finding a engine failure caused by ANY filter is rare. In order to actually cause an immediate engine failure the filter would have to leak or explode, then you would have to continue to drive the car until the oil all ran out and the engine seized. Most filter failures cause extra wear not failure. Many can shorten the life of the engine and you'd never know it.
-T
Finding a engine failure caused by ANY filter is rare. In order to actually cause an immediate engine failure the filter would have to leak or explode, then you would have to continue to drive the car until the oil all ran out and the engine seized. Most filter failures cause extra wear not failure. Many can shorten the life of the engine and you'd never know it.
-T
If your accceptance criteria for an oil filter is that it not frequently destroy engines, then you will be happy with Fram.
Other fussier car owners consider things such as frequently non-functional ADB valves not acceptable. They ahave also been several reports of Fram filters that have been opened up and failed filter media being found. Failed in that it had an obvious hole in it or a glue joint was bad. I found one with a bad glue joint and the resultant serious case of gaposus in the filtering media myself.
If those thing don't bother you, then Fram is for you.
Oil filters have many failure modes, most of them are not apparant unless you cut the filter open. Most of them do no immediately noticable damage to your engine.
Most of us are here because we give **** about our vehicles. Some of us are looking for the best, some are looking for the most bang for the buck.
Don't expect people like that to take to a substandard quality product like Fram oil filter.
I doubt that anyone here cares if you use them. Enjoy your Frams
This is the last message I'm posting under this thread because people don't seem to get my point and are not answering my question.
I believe frams are inferior to the other filters available in stores here. I do not use Fram filters on my car. I didn't before this thread started, I didn't during this thread, and I'm not going to after.
For interest sake only (NOT because I'm trying to convince myself or others to use Fram filters) does anyone know of an engine that suffered some sort of a failure due to the use of Fram filters?
I believe frams are inferior to the other filters available in stores here. I do not use Fram filters on my car. I didn't before this thread started, I didn't during this thread, and I'm not going to after.
For interest sake only (NOT because I'm trying to convince myself or others to use Fram filters) does anyone know of an engine that suffered some sort of a failure due to the use of Fram filters?
Okay, here I go. Due to the lack of an ADBV in the Fram oil filter for my truck, I would hear loud ticking on cold starts. This ticking is due to lack of lubrication. Inadequate lubrucation causes damage.
So, with my truck - the use of a Fram oil filter DID cause damage to my engine.
I doubt you'll find anybody who will tell you that a Fram caused engine failure immediatly. But, like most damage, a little will lead to alot over time.
If somebody will pay for it, I'll do two used oil analysis on my truck. One with a Fram and one with a Motorcraft FL820s. Let the numbers be the proof.
That was AC Fine Dust, a laboratory grade mix of various sized particles designed for doing the SAE filter efficiency and capacity tests.
I used Frams for many years with no problems.
What I have heard from Fram employees is that both design and quality control suffered when Allied Signal took over, and the reports of collapsed or perforated filter media, canister failures, and so on seemed to coincide with that take over.
Given that engines are dear and filters cheap, I'd go with the better construction.
Anecodotal stories of failures may be interesting, but without some sort of controlled study meaningless.
However, examinations of design and comparisons with competitors tend to support the anecdotal evidence.
I've yet to see a Fram "cause" a catastrophic engine failure, but the possible long term effect of using them is enough to make me buy something better.
I just pulled a Fram off my son's recently purchased Pathfinder and cut it apart. It was difficult to cut open since the can wanted to crush instead of cut cleanly and the element was twisted and partially collapsed in about 1500 miles. The media was floppy and looked like it could fail at any moment. Even though this Nissan filter uses no bypass valve, it appeared the element was sealing so poorly against the end plate that in effect I had permanent element bypass.
No thanks on Fram. We have a Purolator on the truck now...
I just pulled a Fram off my son's recently purchased Pathfinder and cut it apart. It was difficult to cut open since the can wanted to crush instead of cut cleanly and the element was twisted and partially collapsed in about 1500 miles. The media was floppy and looked like it could fail at any moment. Even though this Nissan filter uses no bypass valve, it appeared the element was sealing so poorly against the end plate that in effect I had permanent element bypass.
No thanks on Fram. We have a Purolator on the truck now...
Back about 96, The NHRA banned Fram oil filters from being used at NHRA events, due to excessive failure of the metal canister. The NHRA could care less if you blow your engine, but they have a problem when you dump 5 quarts of oil on their track.
This is where the Fram "HP" series filter came from. Thicker can, same old crappy internals...
Amen !
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