Fracturing

[MolaKule]

http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.or...ectly-good-job/

Quote:
So, why must the federal government need to increase its presence in this area, costing taxpayers more in the administrative process of overseeing the industry and adding more red tape and processing time for industry to do the job that they have been trained and experienced to do, providing us with much needed energy. Fossil fuels will dominate our energy future for longer than forecasters can predict energy supply and demand, so denying that fact and restricting their use through even more regulations will only cause Americans financial and comfort hardships.

 

[Lead Shoes]

I can't wait until they find out the impact on the water table and ecosystem of that area of ND.

They will basically rape the land for the next decade or two, then leave it high and dry like they always do.

 

[DBMaster]

There have been an increasing number of small earthquakes around North Texas in areas where fracking is being done. IIRC the tremors are related more to the disposal wells than to the actual shale layer fracturing. The industry says that because the disposal wells are 7,000+ feet below the surface and concrete lined they present no danger to the water table.

The truth is that I can't say if the small earthquakes will lead to bigger ones, or if the fluids in the disposal wells present any danger for the future. To say anything would be mere conjecture. I don't think it's particularly good to send millions of gallons of freshwater out of sight where it cannot be reused for other purposes.

What do you all think?

 

[bepperb]

You could make the argument the same for anything the government oversees. The increased burden is what the majority is willing to bear because the don't trust the minority group (in this case drilling for oil) to protect them. And after the BP oil spill and countless others I wouldn't either.

I don't like spending the money either, but companies drilling for oil don't have the best track record.

 

[JOD]

"Why"? Because local regulations for energy extraction have demonstrated to be horribly short-sighted, ineffective and ultimately VERY expensive--and often end up with federal dollars spent for the clean-up.

Sorry, but I'm just not going to trust the energy companies to "do the right thing". And I'm certainly not going to take at face value the words from an "independent organization" like the IER which is a paid mouthpiece for the companies which stand to benefit the most. It seems to me as though regulation in this area is warranted.

 

[Loobed]

Quote:
So, why must the federal government need to increase its presence in this area, costing taxpayers more in the administrative process of overseeing the industry and adding more red tape and processing time for industry to do the job that they have been trained and experienced to do, providing us with much needed energy. Fossil fuels will dominate our energy future for longer than forecasters can predict energy supply and demand, so denying that fact and restricting their use through even more regulations will only cause Americans financial and comfort hardships.

The government employes the unemployable (98% of government workers are unemployable). With more and more unemployable being produced every day, The government needs to produce new jobs.

 

[cheetahdriver]

Originally Posted By: JOD
"Why"? Because local regulations for energy extraction have demonstrated to be horribly short-sighted, ineffective and ultimately VERY expensive--and often end up with federal dollars spent for the clean-up.

Sorry, but I'm just not going to trust the energy companies to "do the right thing". And I'm certainly not going to take at face value the words from an "independent organization" like the IER which is a paid mouthpiece for the companies which stand to benefit the most. It seems to me as though regulation in this area is warranted.


The fracking companies have acted like they have something to hide, which makes me think, perhaps THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE...

Even the most jaded Petroleum Engineers will say that further research is warranted, and these guys want to drill and frack in the playgrounds of the local grade schools. I think going slow until they get some miles on the process is a reasonable request, and if you act like that will be the doom of the western world, then, yes, that was an order...

I do love the report completely red herringing (is that a word?) the earthquake issue. The earthquakes aren't caused by the actual act of the fracture, we do understand that. But that is not the only mechanism at work here.

I don't know what the oil companies paid to have this put out, but I would say that if it was more than the cost of a cheeseburger, they got ripped...

 

[sciphi]

After seeing up close the effects that fracking had on Tioga County and Bradford County in PA, no thanks! Keep that as far away from the Finger Lakes as possible. There's far more money to be made in tourism and wine-making in that area than any amount of gas drilling could provide. It's difficult to enjoy the view of a lake when the winery is nearby a frack pad. I wouldn't want to drink the wine, either. Or swim in the lake.

And, the tourists think the windmills and solar panels are chic. Not so much with a frack pad and all the trucks running to and from.

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

They're working on a food grade (drinkable) fracking fluid:

Food grade fracking fluid development

 

[JimPghPA]

IF the companies doing these gas wells truly wanted to be a good neighbor, they would have funds set aside to take care of homeowners affected by the financial problems caused by their home being located near a gas well.

There are several problems caused when a company installs a well and the value of near by property decreases.

If you want to sell your house it will be worth less.

If you want to take a loan out using the house as collateral the reduced value of the house will reduce the amount of the loan you can get, if you can get one at all.

If the value of the house decreases below the amount owed on the mortgage the bank may call the home owner and demand the difference, and if the home owner can not come up with the money the bank can take the house.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While these hidden problems are real problems that homeowners really run into when wells and the infrastructure that supports the wells are put in near homes, the companies are NOT held responsible for these financial set-backs that homeowners are blindsided with. Part of the blame must go on the state, because the states look at the taxes and other financial benefits the state will receive, and do not stand up and demand proper financial backing of the problems homeowners face.

It is almost like the map of the United States is posted on a wall for someone to take a shotgun blast to and each area where a hit occurs the homeowners are left to deal with any problems they encounter from wells being placed near them, without the states giving a darn about the homeowners, and only caring about any additional income the state will receive from these wells.

 

[LeakySeals]

War on fossil fuels. They will find anything, any way to prevent drilling. Scare tactics are at the top. Probably come after BITOG next for "internet emissions".

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Probably come after BITOG next for "internet emissions".


And they'd have a good case, too......

 

[VicVinegar]

Eh, the average Joe is screwed either way. We'll either pay out the nose for fuel, or out the nose for clean water. Or both, seeing the natural gas won't flow out of those wells forever. Water sources are actually pretty good at fixing themselves, but takes quite a long time to do so.

Nobody wants high energy prices, but only when the crunch really hits people's wallets will the alternatives start popping up. I think history has shown that we can figure things out when we need to, but first you need that catalyst.

So if I lived in Upstate NY I wouldn't want those drilling crews anywhere near the Finger Lakes. They can't guarantee the lake won't be trashed at the end, and those roughnecking jobs aren't exactly going to last forever. Of course, our country has never been one to think long-term, so the lake might lose out.

 

[simple_gifts]

JimPghPA, very well thought out points.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: JOD
"Why"? Because local regulations for energy extraction have demonstrated to be horribly short-sighted, ineffective and ultimately VERY expensive--and often end up with federal dollars spent for the clean-up.

Sorry, but I'm just not going to trust the energy companies to "do the right thing". And I'm certainly not going to take at face value the words from an "independent organization" like the IER which is a paid mouthpiece for the companies which stand to benefit the most. It seems to me as though regulation in this area is warranted.

Why are the regulators qualified to regulate? What information do they have that the state regulators / private operators don't have?

This is nothing but an EPA power grab.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
IF the companies doing these gas wells truly wanted to be a good neighbor, they would have funds set aside to take care of homeowners affected by the financial problems caused by their home being located near a gas well.

There are several problems caused when a company installs a well and the value of near by property decreases.

If you want to sell your house it will be worth less.

If you want to take a loan out using the house as collateral the reduced value of the house will reduce the amount of the loan you can get, if you can get one at all.

If the value of the house decreases below the amount owed on the mortgage the bank may call the home owner and demand the difference, and if the home owner can not come up with the money the bank can take the house.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While these hidden problems are real problems that homeowners really run into when wells and the infrastructure that supports the wells are put in near homes, the companies are NOT held responsible for these financial set-backs that homeowners are blindsided with. Part of the blame must go on the state, because the states look at the taxes and other financial benefits the state will receive, and do not stand up and demand proper financial backing of the problems homeowners face.

It is almost like the map of the United States is posted on a wall for someone to take a shotgun blast to and each area where a hit occurs the homeowners are left to deal with any problems they encounter from wells being placed near them, without the states giving a darn about the homeowners, and only caring about any additional income the state will receive from these wells.

Can you site specific cases of this?

 

[MolaKule]

Here is a question to ask yourself:

When are we going to quit penalizing producers?

Quote:
I don't think it's particularly good to send millions of gallons of freshwater out of sight where it cannot be reused for other purposes.


Did anyone really read the article or look at the graphics?

The waste water is stored and then treated to be resued.

And I don't think it makes sense to draw water from the aquafer and irrigate corn to make ethanol.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
There's far more money to be made in tourism and wine-making in that area than any amount of gas drilling could provide.


I never knew you could burn wine or tourists for fuel?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Here is a question to ask yourself:

When are we going to quit penalizing producers?

Quote:
I don't think it's particularly good to send millions of gallons of freshwater out of sight where it cannot be reused for other purposes.


Did anyone really read the article or look at the graphics?

The waste water is stored and then treated to be resued.

And I don't think it makes sense to draw water from the aquafer and irrigate corn to make ethanol.


I read it in its entirety. It's a puff piece by a public relations firm. Referring to regulations of this practice as "penalizing producers" in, IMHO, nonsensical.

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
IF the companies doing these gas wells truly wanted to be a good neighbor, they would have funds set aside to take care of homeowners affected by the financial problems caused by their home being located near a gas well.

There are several problems caused when a company installs a well and the value of near by property decreases.

If you want to sell your house it will be worth less.

If you want to take a loan out using the house as collateral the reduced value of the house will reduce the amount of the loan you can get, if you can get one at all.

If the value of the house decreases below the amount owed on the mortgage the bank may call the home owner and demand the difference, and if the home owner can not come up with the money the bank can take the house.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While these hidden problems are real problems that homeowners really run into when wells and the infrastructure that supports the wells are put in near homes, the companies are NOT held responsible for these financial set-backs that homeowners are blindsided with. Part of the blame must go on the state, because the states look at the taxes and other financial benefits the state will receive, and do not stand up and demand proper financial backing of the problems homeowners face.

It is almost like the map of the United States is posted on a wall for someone to take a shotgun blast to and each area where a hit occurs the homeowners are left to deal with any problems they encounter from wells being placed near them, without the states giving a darn about the homeowners, and only caring about any additional income the state will receive from these wells.

Can you site specific cases of this?


A couple of months ago, a news reporter did an interview with a couple who owned a home going through some of the problems I listed. I did not record that news clip, but the problem is real, the couple being interviewed was real, and they really had a problem because of the well.

One of the things I did not list, was that even with the property value decrease, these houses are hard or impossible to sell if you do want to move out. And this is another problem that the company putting in the well should be addressing.