Found Ultra 0w20...go for it?

[BTLew81]

I'm on the road and found a nice stash of Ultra 0w20. 15 quarts. Given the opportunity to get it at just a slightly higher price than AFE, would you? I dont have the specs handy, so can anyone give some feedback? Thanks.

 

[Clevy]

I like ultra and sopus in general however I'm unconvinced it's worth more out of pocket than the AFE you are comparing it too. Iirc it has a lower viscosity index which all by itself doesn't mean much however winter is on its way.

 

[Apollo14]

If you need it, buy it. It's cheaper than AFE if the rebate is still available.

 

[CATERHAM]

So this is PUP 0W-20: http://www.pennzoil.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Pennzoil-Ultra-Platinum-0W-20-SN-GF-5-en-TDS.pdf I'd buy TGMO even if it costs more but if the choice is between PUP and AFE, I'd likely spring for AFE unless you can still get the rebate.

 

[Rand]

they also have m1 0w20 EP which is composed of a generous % of PAO.. for all the group IV fans.. I wonder why this isnt more popular?

 

[fdcg27]

Buy a jug of the PUP 0W-20, register the car for the Pennzoil engine warranty and get a $25.00 MIR on Ultra. This may not be the best possible oil in the grade, but it'll be a good one. If I were paying retail with no rebate and prefered SOPUS, there's nothing wrong with either Plat or QSUD in the 0W-20 grade. There's also nothing wrong with either flavor of M1 in this grade.

 

[Nyogtha]

Depending where you're buying it, there's a $10 back by mail MIR (limit is two 5 qt jugs) plus $0.50 / gallon of Shell gasoline discount from FRN through 11/30/14. http://www.pzlfallmir.com/ http://www.pzlfallfuel.com/ You will need to scan & upload your receipt for the FRN discount. Participating Retailer Locator Fuel Rewards Network™ promotion not valid at the following retail stores: AAFES, NEXCOM, Meijer and Fred Meyer

 

[Droopy]

You could always buy it and sell it to our Canadien friends who for some reason can't find it. There's money to be made there. Lol.

 

[Trav]

PU is great oil and every bit as good as any of the others mentioned in this thread. There is absolutely nothing about TGMO or any other that makes it better than PU in the engine other than someones fantasy. If your engine is spec for 0w20 it will perform as well as anything else on the market and better than many. You could say exactly the same for Mobil 1 AFE. Get whats cheapest in sealed bottles and use it.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Trav

There is absolutely nothing about TGMO or any other that makes it better than PU in the engine other than someones fantasy.

It's funny how some people form such a strong opinion about an oil they have never used. TGMO and the few other very high VI oils like it are best thought of as being in a different viscosity grouping than other 0W-20s. They are simply much lighter on start-up at typical start-up temp's. There is a greater viscosity difference on start-up than there is between a 5W-20 and a 5W-30. That means greater oil flow. Now you can try and make the usual thicker oil case that the difference doesn't matter or you'll never notice it etc etc. Then you could make the even more valid case that there isn't any signicant difference between a typical OTC 0W-20 like PP, PUP or M1 at non extreme temp's and you'd right. But why stop there. You could also make the case that a 5W-30 isn't that much heavier than a 5W-20, certainly not enough that most can notice. The point is, there are real lubrication benefits inaddition to fuel savings between an oil with a 220 VI and and one at only 170 or less. Or an oil with a 36cSt KV40 vs 46cSt. Is it huge? No, but it's significant nonetheless.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: Trav

There is absolutely nothing about TGMO or any other that makes it better than PU in the engine other than someones fantasy.

It's funny how some people form such a strong opinion about an oil they have never used. TGMO and the few other very high VI oils like it are best thought of as being in a different viscosity grouping than other 0W-20s. They are simply much lighter on start-up at typical start-up temp's. There is a greater viscosity difference on start-up than there is between a 5W-20 and a 5W-30. That means greater oil flow. Now you can try and make the usual thicker oil case that the difference doesn't matter or you'll never notice it etc etc. Then you could make the even more valid case that there isn't any signicant difference between a typical OTC 0W-20 like PP, PUP or M1 at non extreme temp's and you'd right. But why stop there. You could also make the case that a 5W-30 isn't that much heavier than a 5W-20, certainly not enough that most can notice. The point is, there are real lubrication benefits inaddition to fuel savings between an oil with a 220 VI and and one at only 170 or less. Or an oil with a 36cSt KV40 vs 46cSt. Is it huge? No, but it's significant nonetheless.

Caterham,not that I'm trying to argue with you but with a positive displacement pump wouldn't oil flow remain the same no matter what grade is in the dump and the only difference would be oil pressure. Well until the pressure exceeded the oil circuits by-pass pressure is reached then the extra pressure would be dumped back into the pan? Again I'm not arguing,it's more like a question

 

[Apollo14]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: Trav

There is absolutely nothing about TGMO or any other that makes it better than PU in the engine other than someones fantasy.

It's funny how some people form such a strong opinion about an oil they have never used. TGMO and the few other very high VI oils like it are best thought of as being in a different viscosity grouping than other 0W-20s. They are simply much lighter on start-up at typical start-up temp's. There is a greater viscosity difference on start-up than there is between a 5W-20 and a 5W-30. That means greater oil flow. Now you can try and make the usual thicker oil case that the difference doesn't matter or you'll never notice it etc etc. Then you could make the even more valid case that there isn't any signicant difference between a typical OTC 0W-20 like PP, PUP or M1 at non extreme temp's and you'd right. But why stop there. You could also make the case that a 5W-30 isn't that much heavier than a 5W-20, certainly not enough that most can notice. The point is, there are real lubrication benefits inaddition to fuel savings between an oil with a 220 VI and and one at only 170 or less. Or an oil with a 36cSt KV40 vs 46cSt. Is it huge? No, but it's significant nonetheless.

I certainly notice the difference between 5w20 and 5w30 and I'm in CA. My vehicles mainly do short trips so it's good that they are running closer to optimal viscosity during their run time. Interesting that (OEM) 0w20 vs 5w20 is a bigger difference than 5w20 vs 5w30. Maybe I'll give it a try in a couple of years when I'm through my stash. Certainly I wanted to get 0w20 instead of 5w20 but the various deals when I was buying were too good to pass up. I think some people will never understand the concept that almost all automotive progress is made through continual small steps. Whether it's vehicles or oils, that's how engineering works. I see the same people knock not only incremental progress but more radical progress and invention too. That doesn't make sense to me because that is what America is all about.

 

[Trav]

Quote:

It's funny how some people form such a strong opinion about an oil they have never used.

I don't use any oil, my wife might use a bit of KY now and then but thats it AFAIK. I know enough about engines to know the engine doesn't give a rats rear about a little thinner, a little thicker or a little higher VI or any other such things. I form my opinion based on 42 years of tearing engines apart and seeing the wear and tear first hand. My father being the owner of a machine shop most of my life taught me to use micrometer and other measuring tools competently. I know the difference between wear you can see and wear you can measure and what it means. If the engine is built for and specs for xw20 then it should wear okay regardless what brand or VI as long as it meet the spec. I routinely run 5w30 and 0w40 in Honda 0w20 US spec engines and after 100K see no additional wear on the cams, cranks or cylinder walls. In the case of the iVTEC 3.5 i see less. I ran a Honda 4 banger on 10w60 for 12 years and over quarter of a million Km and there was no wear outside of factory new spec. I had the engine apart to change an internal stretched chain. It was spec for 10w30. Going thinner than spec can be risky while going a little thicker can bring better results in many engines like the VQ35De engine. In any case there is no risk going slightly thicker if you live outside the arctic circle. The OP has a Honda not a Toyota why would he want to run the thinner Toyota oil? Maybe Honda doesn't care what 0w20 you use. The may be a small mileage hit from a light 20 to a heavy 30 but between a 0w20 and a another 0w20 its not going to be noticeable and it isn't going to make any difference to the engine whatsoever. There is nothing magical or special about TGMO, nothing at all. Its just a light 0w20 oil nothing more and nothing less. I am not bashing the oil, its a good oil but it is not any better than Mobil 1, PP, PU and a host of others in any way. The engine will likely outlive the body on any of them when the oil is changed at regular intervals which IMHO is even more important than what brand of oil you choose. Change the oil at the proper interval and the engine will say thanks for that and keep on running happily.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Quote:

It's funny how some people form such a strong opinion about an oil they have never used.

I don't use any oil, my wife might use a bit of KY now and then but thats it AFAIK. I know enough about engines to know the engine doesn't give a rats rear about a little thinner, a little thicker or a little higher VI or any other such things. I form my opinion based on 42 years of tearing engines apart and seeing the wear and tear first hand. My father being the owner of a machine shop most of my life taught me to use micrometer and other measuring tools competently. I know the difference between wear you can see and wear you can measure and what it means. If the engine is built for and specs for xw20 then it should wear okay regardless what brand or VI as long as it meet the spec. I routinely run 5w30 and 0w40 in Honda 0w20 US spec engines and after 100K see no additional wear on the cams, cranks or cylinder walls. In the case of the iVTEC 3.5 i see less. I ran a Honda 4 banger on 10w60 for 12 years and over quarter of a million Km and there was no wear outside of factory new spec. I had the engine apart to change an internal stretched chain. It was spec for 10w30. Going thinner than spec can be risky while going a little thicker can bring better results in many engines like the VQ35De engine. In any case there is no risk going slightly thicker if you live outside the arctic circle. The OP has a Honda not a Toyota why would he want to run the thinner Toyota oil? Maybe Honda doesn't care what 0w20 you use. The may be a small mileage hit from a light 20 to a heavy 30 but between a 0w20 and a another 0w20 its not going to be noticeable and it isn't going to make any difference to the engine whatsoever. There is nothing magical or special about TGMO, nothing at all. Its just a light 0w20 oil nothing more and nothing less. I am not bashing the oil, its a good oil but it is not any better than Mobil 1, PP, PU and a host of others in any way. The engine will likely outlive the body on any of them when the oil is changed at regular intervals which IMHO is even more important than what brand of oil you choose. Change the oil at the proper interval and the engine will say thanks for that and keep on running happily.

Said as it should be said.

 

[Shannow]

I'm still waiting for evidence of the "real lubrication benefits" that keep getting claimed for TGMO, even over other 0W20s (some of which have other manufacturer approvals). Surely there's something in the sequence IV wear test (warm-up wear), or any of the other tests that are recognised by industry that would demonstrate this clear superiority, and "real lubrication benefits" to high VI...and they should be easy for one so well versed in this, the oil which we know more about than any other, to wheel out and demonstrate them to us. But we never get proof, just statements regarding "self evident", and "obvious", and later an insult or three thrown in.

 

[Trav]

Is there is such a test that would prove any benefits of high VI?

 

[Shannow]

Apparently there's a lack of evidence in API, SAE, ACEA, and ILSAC, but there appear to be some special Toyota tests, in which the oil (well one of at least three formulas) that was built specifically for the Prius... proved to be so successful and robust, with so many advantages ... still waiting for the test methodology and the advantages, but they are apparently implicitly obvious and self evident. Because every time I ask for evidence in the industry standard wear tests, all I get to hear is crickets.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Apparently there's a lack of evidence in API, SAE, ACEA, and ILSAC, but there appear to be some special Toyota tests, in which the oil (well one of at least three formulas) that was built specifically for the Prius... proved to be so successful and robust, with so many advantages ... still waiting for the test methodology and the advantages, but they are apparently implicitly obvious and self evident. Because every time I ask for evidence in the industry standard wear tests, all I get to hear is crickets.

Chirp chirp....

 

[wemay]

Just give me what meets specs/certifications/approvals. I trust that ConocoPhillips, XOM, SOPUS, BP, and Ashland are all doing so just fine.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: Trav

There is absolutely nothing about TGMO or any other that makes it better than PU in the engine other than someones fantasy.

It's funny how some people form such a strong opinion about an oil they have never used. TGMO and the few other very high VI oils like it are best thought of as being in a different viscosity grouping than other 0W-20s. They are simply much lighter on start-up at typical start-up temp's. There is a greater viscosity difference on start-up than there is between a 5W-20 and a 5W-30. That means greater oil flow. Now you can try and make the usual thicker oil case that the difference doesn't matter or you'll never notice it etc etc. Then you could make the even more valid case that there isn't any signicant difference between a typical OTC 0W-20 like PP, PUP or M1 at non extreme temp's and you'd right. But why stop there. You could also make the case that a 5W-30 isn't that much heavier than a 5W-20, certainly not enough that most can notice. The point is, there are real lubrication benefits inaddition to fuel savings between an oil with a 220 VI and and one at only 170 or less. Or an oil with a 36cSt KV40 vs 46cSt. Is it huge? No, but it's significant nonetheless.

Caterham,not that I'm trying to argue with you but with a positive displacement pump wouldn't oil flow remain the same no matter what grade is in the dump and the only difference would be oil pressure. Well until the pressure exceeded the oil circuits by-pass pressure is reached then the extra pressure would be dumped back into the pan? Again I'm not arguing,it's more like a question

The very light on start-up TGMO 0W-20 is too heavy to avoid the oil pump going into by-pass mode on a "cold" start even on a hot summer day with some cars and all cars will not be able to use low rpms when you drive off without going into by-pass. Of course the colder the start the the sooner and longer you'll be in by-pass mode until the oil gets some heat into it and starts to heat up and thin out. As you know, when you're in by-pass oil flow is being reduced. Since TGMO is considerably lighter on start-up than the likes of PUP 0W-20 and virtually all other OTC 0W-20s it will be in by-pass less during warm-up with correspondingly greater oil flow.