Ford's write up on their reasons for use of 5W-20

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Gary,

Perhaps they're counting on the engines high RPMs in that scenario to save the oil?
I remember the synlube guy saying that inflating your RPMs would allow running lower viscosity oil.

In any case, what I want is hard data showing a difference in real-life engine lifespans based on motor oil viscosity.
If we act like scientists, we have trouble proving that any viscosity from 0W20 to 20W50 has any effect in non-freezing temps in any gas engine...
 
Does Ford get any EPA or other "credit" for back dating most of their vehicles by now recommend 5W-20?


If not, why would they do this if it is all about CAFE?
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[ June 17, 2006, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rodbuckler:
I tried GC (a thick 30) and had to drain it out immediately for fear of losing the engine.

There is no way a 30 or 40 weight will protect my engine better than the 20 weight. The engine is designed for the 20 weight.


And then how about all those tiny and tight Honda engines running perfectly in Europe on the specced by Honda 5w30?
Engines are NOT designed to run on one particular grade!!!
This myth is being repeated countless times and none here seem to care to challenge its validity.
 
quote:

Originally posted by tenderloin:
Does Ford get any EPA or other "credit" for back dating most of their vehicles by now recommend 5W-20?

It seems to be the case since the CAFE program allows adjustments in the form of the "carryback/carryforward" plans.
 
quote:

Originally posted by ewetho:

Ford GT, Mustang GT500 -- 5W-50

By Spec!

Flame suits on!!!!


Both of those vehicles come from the factory with a supercharger, that is why they are speced with a thicker oil.
 
While I'm awaiting for Rodbucler's response, I would like to post the following screen shot that shows that the same 2.4L Honda engine that is specced for 5w-20 in N.A. gets pretty different oil weight recommendations in Europe.

 -
 
I coudn't find one.
That site follows the factory specs in its weight recommendations.
Also went to UK's Mobil site.
No Xw-20 to be found.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TomJones76:
Gary,

Perhaps they're counting on the engines high RPMs in that scenario to save the oil?
I remember the synlube guy saying that inflating your RPMs would allow running lower viscosity oil.


I think that they're not counting on anything. They're just assuming that they put in a 40 weight and that's a good thing.

If they're factoring anything about flow rate, then it's probably not in the matter of saving the oil ..but saving the engine.

There's a whole somewhat "self correcting" thing going on with load, viscosity, and flow.

quote:

Originally posted by TomJones76:

In any case, what I want is hard data showing a difference in real-life engine lifespans based on motor oil viscosity.
If we act like scientists, we have trouble proving that any viscosity from 0W20 to 20W50 has any effect in non-freezing temps in any gas engine...


I agree. Aside from the margins ..there's a whole lot of common ground where the view, from a lifespan standpoint, is identical.


..and yes, just like the Holiday Inn commercial, most of us are "attempting" to act like scientists and failing miserably ..err ..make that splendidly.
 
I have no doubt that a 0W20 or 5W20 in an application calling for that weight might protct it just fine. I do doubt though that 5W20 is the best comprimise for most engine designs and driveing cycles. This is especialy the case for trucks actualy being used most of the time as trucks/work vechiles not HWY qeens.

I also find it interesting that for the most part this huge push for 20Wt. oils started in N. America were or crazy CAFE system encourges it's use by default. Sure Japan is starting to get the push for 0W20 and 5W20 oils now as well but hat leaves a huge part of the world out. It is hard to push something as counter intuitive as running a thinner oil for all driveing conditions and temp.'s! Remember most drivers in other countries still get to chose the viscosity they want to use from a viscosity chart in their owners manual. It has only been the USA that has been pushing a single weight as the recomended viscosity. THis has only been going on for about 10-15 years and started mostly with the domestic brands and has only slowly trickled over to the imports. CAFE has had a huge inpact in this area. Last I checked Mercedes,BMW,Audi and Hyundai(sp) are the last companies that still give their owners a choice of viscosities on vechiles imported to the USA. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Oh I almost forgott!!! You know this whole thinner oils flow better debate??? Well not only does the oil flow into the parts,spaces and cavitys faster but it also flows out of them faster. This means that when under load the film is going to be squeezed out from between the two floating surfaces faster as well. Now under normal conditions this does not mean much but under shock loading conditions, over heating, detonation even momentarily this makes all the difference in the world. It could also make a huge diffence under high load low rpm conditions.

Someone mentioned that the Ford GT requires 5W50 oil instead of 5W20. Aside from the super charger the block,oil pump,rods, rod bearings,crankshaft,crankshaft bearings and all of the clearances on these parts is basicly indentical to the normal asperiated modular ford block. This alone should demonstrate that 5W20 is not the ideal compromise for this engine series! No one designs an engine around an oil the oil is always picked after wards as an after thought to meet minimum durability standards and to maximize fuel effiency. In the case of the GT CAFE is not an issue so only durability is an issue with the oil selection.
 
In the case of the GT CAFE is not an issue so only durability is an issue with the oil selection.


I think that "reliable while engaged in potential service" is the governing factor here. Anyone can see that this goes so far out of bounds in comparison to typical potential power output that it throws most sensible comparisons out the window.
 
Doesn't anybody remember that when the new 5-20s came out, their testing was twice as stringent as other oils?
5-20s are well built and highly spec'd oils, primatily because of Ford's requirements.
Sure, Ford would like you to buy a new Ford vehicle every year or two, but they wouldn't cut their own throat by having engines fail or burn oil after longer periods of time. Word would get out fast, and would kill their reputation.
 
I've never seen any car that specify 20wt in Europe, and that include models from Mazda, Ford and Honda.
 
quote:

The engine runs perfect under all operating conditions with the 5W-20, with amazing performance on cold startup. The 30 weight oils drag my engine down noticeably hot and cold, and give valvetrain noise on cold start.

What's curious about this observation is that all viscosity grades get thicker with colder temps.

Take a look at this viscosity comparison for Pennzoil 5W-20 & 5w30.


code:

Viscosity in cSt

TEMP Pennzoil

C F 5W-20 5w30

0 32 431 551

5 41 303 391

10 50 220 284

15 59 162 211

20 68 123 159

25 77 95 123

30 86 74 97

40 104 47 62

50 122 32 42

100 212 8.2 10.5







Note that at temps of 50 F degrees and warmer, the viscosities of 5W-20 and 5w30 are about 10 degrees apart.

So here's my point - if 5w30 produces valvetrain noise in Rodbuckler's Ford engines, doesn't the 5W-20 do the same when it's 10 degrees colder and a equivalent viscosity to 5w30?

As I stated earlier in this thread, I'm a believer in the 5W-20 viscosity grade, I just don't see any validity to the point that 5w30's are too thick for Ford engines.
 
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