Ford WSS-M2C913-D oil

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16

Talking about Ravenol, how about these/ http://www.ravenolamerica.com/categories/motor-oil/oldtimer-classic-oil.html

Wow API SA and SB momogrades, plus SC and SE 20W-50. Now that is old school.

 

[supercity]

Originally Posted By: SR5

It seems Fords likes a bit of extra ZDDP in their oil, just over a 1000 ppm Zn, which I assume it's for that extra wet cam chain wear test they have added to the regular A5/B5 tests.

Maybe not, the Castrol oils are SN rated. SN vs SL is somewhat irrelevant for this oil. The original UK/European spec for the Mustang V8 was 948B 5w-20 which is an Ecoboost oil. I always thought they changed the Mustang V8 spec for Australia to align with the 913 as that's used in just about every other Ford sold here however it appears 913 is also specified outside Australia also. Meanwhile Ford stuck with 930A 5w-20 for the XR-8,

 

[SR5]

Yes the Castrol Magnatec "Stop-Start" 5W-30 A5, full synthetic, is API SN/CF, ACEA A1/B1 & A5/B5, Ford WSS-M2C913-C/D, ILSAC GF-4 (yes four) and says "For use with Ford Ranger and Mustang Vehicles". We talked about it here https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4531827/ It's SN but only GF-4 ( go figure) but most of the rest of the 913-D oils are SL and those that publish Zn figures all have them over 1000 ppm. Thanks for telling me what the XR8 uses for oil, I had no idea they used a 5W20 in there. You are talking about the local XR8 Falcon correct ? Edit: that must be the most recent XR8 as the slightly older ones are listed as using 0W40 synthetic on the Castrol and Valvoline lube guide. The recent ones have no listing (2016, 2017 XR8)

 

[jaj]

My son's new 2017 Ford Focus 2L GDI takes either WSS-M2C948-B 5w20 OR WSS-M2C913-C 5w30. Plain vanilla API SN 5w20 need not apply.

 

[dailydriver]

I have a '16 Fiesta ST, 1.6 EcoBoost, and I am going to use the Ravenol DXG 5W-30 in the spring. Reasons being; Formulated specifically for turbo GDI engines with a 6.0% NOACK, and a trimer moly and tungsten anti-wear/anti-friction add pack. Yes, fairly low starting TBN @ 8.3, but I am guessing that is probably due to a lower calcium content in the detergent/dispersant add pack to not contribute to LSPI events , and also a SA of 0.77. It is not too overly thick for this engine @ a 3.1 HTHSV, where the usually recced Ford 945-A 5W-20s are in the 2.7 to 2.9 range. It uses a PAO/POE base stock, which I'm guessing is at least part of the reason for it's super low NOACK.

 

[SR5]

The Ravenol DXG 5W-30 is a Dexos1 oil so those figures for SA% and TBN look about right to me. I generally expect about 0.8% SA & 8 TBN for a "typical" Dexos oil. However that PAO/POE base stock with a 6% Noack volatility, is not typical, and is very impressive. That is a very nice sounding oil, enjoy.

 

[CleverUserName]

I also found a number of Ravenol oils which looked excellent on paper. However, they are less than forthcoming with providing SDS sheets when requested. I've sent Ravenol America 3 seperate requests for an SDS since late January. I also reached out to their American Distributor, Blauparts.com and they gave me the run around. I'm not sure if they are totally incompetent, or just refuse to provide safety documents. Do they have something to hide? Aren't they required to provide them when requested under OSHA laws? It is so frustrating!

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Originally Posted By: JFAllen

Shell Helix Ultra pro AF 5W30 is speced for this application. From the TDS:

Originally Posted By: Shell

Main Application: Shell Helix Ultra AF 5W30 for petrol and diesel engines is approved against the technically challenging in-house Ford engine oil specification WSS-M2C-913 D.

Have used lots of Helix ultra products and can't rate them highly enough. Haven't used this one, as I'm required to use A3/B3 + C2/3 specs in my vehicles. I personally like their vertical intergeneration where Shell are large enough to produce their own base oils (GTL in this case) and their own additives. Unlike boutique blenders who rely on 3rd party base oil and additive suppliers. For example Nulon and Penrite both buy their base oils on the open market from Singapore (their words not mine) from various suppliers, price and availability dependant. Could be Mobil today, BP tomorrow and Petronas the next, you just don't know (obviously it all still cuts the mustard, but the consistancy cannot be confirmed. Shell Ultra always and only comes from the Pearl GTL plant. Single point supply. Ford specs are a bit all over the place (which is unfortunate.) Shell don't claim an API rating, just the ACEA A5/B5, ford, landrover and Jag specs. Also note the Australian site is out of date and only claims WSS-M2C913-C. The actual bottles are labelled correctly on the shelf. If you're in Perth you can find the best prices here: http://www.oilandenergy.com.au/ or Repco has it on the shelf in most locations @~$80 for 5L, but they often have 30% sales. Sorry for sounding a bit like a Royal Dutch Shell employee (I'm not.) Just a fan of their product stack and a punter who has seen measurable improvements in fuel economy and oil consumption since making the switch. Regards Jordan

Nice point of view Is Redline available in AUS?

 

[SR5]

Quote:

Is Redline available in AUS?

I've never seen it in any shop, but if you search around, you can find a few Oz people that sell it. I got a price once for RedLine and it was shockingly expensive. As Jordan says, you are better off buying a quality Shell Helix product for a lot less money. Shell Helix is everywhere, even my local KMart sells it at a good price.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: SR5

The Ravenol DXG 5W-30 is a Dexos1 oil so those figures for SA% and TBN look about right to me. I generally expect about 0.8% SA & 8 TBN for a "typical" Dexos oil. However that PAO/POE base stock with a 6% Noack volatility, is not typical, and is very impressive. That is a very nice sounding oil, enjoy.

Our US distributor, Blauparts does not have the Dexos 1 Gen 2 product in stock yet (that's the version which has those numbers/specs I gave above), so I will have to keep the old(er), non-specific to GDI/low LSPI formula Amsoil Sig Series 5W-20 in the sump a little longer until it is here.

 

[bob22]

Hello all I'm looking for high quality Ford WSS-M2C913-D spec oil in Europe. I noticed that Ford Formula F 5W-30 (913-C) and Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start A5 5W-30 (913-D) have a note: "Contains Molybdenum polysulphide long chain alkyl dithiocarbamide complex". I'm aware that there is plenty of Ford 913-D class oils without Moly working fine, but so far these two oils above seems to be only ones containing Moly. The question remains that should I consider Moly as an advantage, because I could imagine Moly enhancing protection against cylinder and chain wear? If I use regular 913-D oil that does not contain Moly, should I use Moly additive with it? I've had Mobil Super 3000 FE 5w-30 in now for 15000 km's (ca. 9300 miles) and changing tomorrow to Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start A5 5W-30, to get some own real world results also (does engine sound change etc.). Mobil does not claim to have Moly in it. But Your opinions / expertise, how do you think?

 

[Garak]

The moly in these products would be used in the friction modification role and not likely anywhere near concentrations required for anti-wear. Generally speaking, I wouldn't recommend any additive in a fully formulated motor oil that is specified for the application in question.

 

[bob22]

Castrol claims that the oil does following: "intelligent molecules will protect your engine from the moment you start, every time you start, dramatically reducing stop-start wear" and "Forms a self-healing layer that clings to metal surfaces and protects your engine in busy traffic conditions". That's why I was thinking Moly could be used as an anti-wear in this oil? But MSDS does not tell the concentration of Moly in oil. It's difficult to know are those claims just marketing speech or actual product characteristics. Could it be that Moly has been added to compensate i.e. lower ZDDP (of API SN classification)?

 

[Garak]

I still doubt they have enough moly for AW. There may be some esters in there for clinging. Of course, there still is ZDDP there.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: bob22

Could it be that Moly has been added to compensate i.e. lower ZDDP (of API SN classification)?

That could be possible, but we are only guessing. Ford 913D has an extra cam chain wear test, which I assume extra ZDDP (zinc) helps pass, which I assume puts the formulation over the Phos limits for a API SN 5W30 oil, making it a SL oil (such as the Valvoline SynPower). I guess. So if you could reduce the ZDDP and replace it with something else, then you could have a 913D oil with API SN. But that doesn't mean it's better, just that it's formulated a different way. The Moly could be part of what you said - it sounds reasonable to me. But as Garak says, it could be used for friction reduction, and the protection may come from other organic compounds. The 913D oils, also need to pass a fuel economy test, which often makes them at the very thin end of the 30 grade. Maybe the moly oil is a little thicker for protection, but then the moly reduces the friction. Anyway, I certainly would not add anything to the finished product. Select the 913D oil you prefer and use "as is". The 913D formulation has a lot of good requirements, and any oil that carries the spec is a good oil that was carefully formulated and tested. Best not to add something extra.

 

[SureshR]

Hi. I have a 2014 "all new" Fiesta 1.5 duratorq TDCI diesel - the one with the Aston Martin type grille (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indi...-facelift-close-look-67.html#post4229370). The Duratorq is basically a Peugeot sourced diesel - the DLD https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine I use it for monthly highway drives - work trips to an around 250 mile away city but with a couple of hours of horrible city traffic at the end, besides local short trips for errands like dropping my kids off at their school a couple of miles from my apartment. Short haul local runs in stop start traffic are pretty much the classic "severe service" use case for diesels. I wind up needing to change oil at 5000 odd miles. Anyway - after multiple earlier oil fills using the Ford OEM oil, which in India is Castrol Magnatec Professional 5w30, I used Mobil Super 3000 x1 which is a SL/CF and A5/B5 oil compatible with WSS M2C-913C and D. This is a decent oil as far as oils in this Ford spec go, but all said and done it looks like a gasoline oil with some light duty diesel compatibility. Has someone tried using a diesel oil CI4+ if not API CK with these engines? Is there a diesel 5w30 that meets these sulfate and zinc specs, rather than a petrol and light duty diesel type oil? Failing that - are 5w30 oils compatible with Ford WSS-M2C 929 and 946 besides a5/b5 ok with this engine? Such as this Amsoil SN, Dexos 1 Gen 2, A5/B5, https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf I use Amsoil 5w40 CK4 in my other SUV (a Mahindra Scorpio) and the engine is a lot happier on it than on the extremely cheap Valvoline cobranded CH4 oil that's OEM - so if the diesel oil works and that too a higher weight one, that'd save stockpiling several gallon cans of oil in my shoebox apartment. Thanks - i'll stop bothering you with more questions than a newbie to this group should be asking

 

[Bailes1992]

Ford later changed their stance to allow 0w30 ACEA C2 oils in the 1.5TDCi. I had a UOA done on mine after 5k with 913D oil and with 0w30 C2 and every time it had sheared out of spec or diluted with diesel down to a 20 weight. I ended up using Castrol Edge 0w30 Dexos2 but tried all sorts. The engine had far lower wear numbers and stayed in grade with a higher HTHS oil.

 

[SureshR]

Thanks! It confirms what I've experienced with 913D oils - the oem castrol semi synthetic lasts around 4000 miles max, and the Mobil 1 is at around 5k. However, I'm not at all sure a 0w30 is going to be that good an idea in India - high sulfur diesel (now at 50 ppm compared to 350 around 2012) and not very good cetane numbers (51 is the minimum) plus all the tropical heat and humidity, temperatures (100+ F in the summer). Will higher weight and higher hths be OK?

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by SR5

What Ford spec oil do you guys use in North America in the Mustang ?

It's not a Mustang but my wife's Fusion has a 1.5L Ecoboost engine and it calls for oil that meets Ford's WSS-M2C945-A spec. In the US, Ford's blender(s) make this as a synthetic blend but in Canada, a conventional oil is produced by their blender(s) that meets the spec.

 

[Bailes1992]

Originally Posted by SureshR

Thanks! It confirms what I've experienced with 913D oils - the oem castrol semi synthetic lasts around 4000 miles max, and the Mobil 1 is at around 5k. However, I'm not at all sure a 0w30 is going to be that good an idea in India - high sulfur diesel (now at 50 ppm compared to 350 around 2012) and not very good cetane numbers (51 is the minimum) plus all the tropical heat and humidity, temperatures (100+ F in the summer). Will higher weight and higher hths be OK?

If your engine burns no oil you could consider using a *w40 A3/B4 oil. I used a Group II HDEO with no Ill effects.