Ford FWD 3.5L/3.7L Water Pump

[92saturnsl2]

Yikes, suddenly changing a timing belt every 105k doesn't seem so bad.

The chain driven water pump in my '96 Maxima failed around 200k. Coolant leaked externally as designed and Nissan was thoughtful enough to put a metal access panel in the timing cover to remove/install the pump through, making it a fairly easy repair. I'd venture a guess that the VQ30 is shoehorned in this car a bit tighter than your average DOHC V6 in a medium size crossover, so I have to wonder why Ford couldn't have done something similar.

 

[Timmastertech]

I've done them in and out of chassis and I will never do another one in chassis. As you state its so much easier to get the timing cover in correctly without messing up the RTV bead. Add to that torquing the crank bolt to spec isnt fun in chassis.

 

[bdcardinal]

might as well do a timing chain and guides at that point.....

what a hassle.

Usually any we have that are close to the 100K mile range get quoted all the timing set. I try to quote them every time just to at leasve give the option to the customer. One of our techs will at least do the main chain tensionor each time.

 

[Lubener]

Makes you wonder what the Ford engineers were smoking when they designed junk like that. I would never own one.

 

[clinebarger]

might as well do a timing chain and guides at that point.....

what a hassle.

Might as well do the VCT Actuators because the Timing Cover needs to be removed if one or both of those fail. Timing components looked really good & had no VCT/Cam Timing DTC's.

I couldn't sell them Timing Components when it needs a Cooling Fan Module, HP Steering Hose. & Power Steering Belt.

 

[Jake_J]

Makes you wonder what the Ford engineers were smoking when they designed junk like that. I would never own one.

It's not the fault of Ford engineers as they don't decide which engine goes into which vehicle. That's the job of product planners and project managers, the engineers just get stuck with the unenviable task of trying to wedge a large 3.7L engine and transmission into a cramped engine bay sideways. The RWD 3.7L engines have a regular belt driven external pump because there is actual room to fit such a setup.

 

[KCJeep]

I've done quite a few of these & have done it by Removing the powertrain & by following Ford's service procedures which had you almost take the engine out & fight with everything.

In my opinion, It's easier to just drop the Powertrain.....Especially on the Edge & Lincoln MKZ. The Mazda CX-9 calls for engine removal in Mazda service information & it's the same platform from what I can tell.
The Ford Flex has more room & haven't tried removing the Powertrain for a water pump yet.....But I'll likely try it next time just to see if it's worth it.

I also believe the customer gets a better level of workmanship this way, Especially with prepping & sealing the Timing Cover.


This one was caught early & was only leaking out the weep passage as designed, No oil contamination, 2008 Ford Edge with 165,xxx miles.....Owner takes pretty good care of it as ya'll can tell.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about these. I own one. What is your opinion regarding whether or not anything can be done to protect or prolong the pumps life? I've heard coolant changes every 30k, using thick oils and more would like to hear your take.

Thanks

 

[JHZR2]

What a horrible design. Imagine if that car was all rusty…

 

[Hermann]

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about these. I own one. What is your opinion regarding whether or not anything can be done to protect or prolong the pumps life? I've heard coolant changes every 30k, using thick oils and more would like to hear your take.

Thanks

Ford Tech Makuloco on YouTube recommends going to the new Motorcraft Yellow coolant. He also recommends 5000 miles synthetic oil changes.

 

[clinebarger]

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about these. I own one. What is your opinion regarding whether or not anything can be done to protect or prolong the pumps life? I've heard coolant changes every 30k, using thick oils and more would like to hear your take.

Thanks

I'm not so sure anything you do will prolong the pumps life, The coolant & oil was obviously maintained on this vehicle. The owner informed me that it gets Mobil 1 0W20 every 5-6,000 miles. The pump itself had no discernable play.

Water Pumps are a maintenance item & just be prepared to replace it in the 150,000 to 200,000 range.

 

[clinebarger]

How hard is it to drop the engine? That looks a lot better than trying to do the work in-car.

Are you replacing the timing chain(s) and tensioners/guides at the same time?

These have a bad reputation for the transfer case (I might have the wrong name here - PTU?) going bad in the AWD versions - no provision to change the oil, and close to the exhaust = short oil life. Are you doing repairs/replacement at the same time?

No need for AWD here, Don't think I've messed with a AWD one yet. Timing components were in excellent shape so I saw no reason to recommend replacement.

 

[earlyre]

if I'm reading the sticker right, that's a fairly early 3.5.. should still take an FL400s...

They built those here in town.. the person who put those inspection marks on the old pump, and inside the timing cover probably lives within 30 mi of me.
they Currently make the Ecoboost 2.7, Ecoboost 3.0, and the FWD versions of the Cyclone 3.3, 3.5, & 3.7. The RWD Versions, and Ecoboost variants are built in Cleveland.

 

[clinebarger]

Yes, This one only has 1 VCT Phaser per bank while the later ones have 2 VCT Phasers per bank......At least that's how identify them.

 

[Number_35]

No need for AWD here, Don't think I've messed with a AWD one yet. Timing components were in excellent shape so I saw no reason to recommend replacement.

That's really good life out of the timing chain and guides; I presume that's due to the relatively frequent oil changes, and the use of a good oil (Mobil 1 @ 5-6K intervals I think you'd said).

 

[doublebase]

Terrible design, but I have seen some high mileage/heavy abuse Ford Edges being pretty trouble free, except for two HUGE issues...that water pump and the PTU transfer case. At least with the transfer case you can totally avoid the problem by servicing it regularly (which Ford for some reason called a lifetime fluid, and then proceeded to underfill them at the factory).

But, honestly I’ve seen these things with over 200,000 miles, just used and abused, and still going.

 

[mattd]

The 3.5/3.7 engines run a LONG time. We have some police cruisers with 30,000+ HOURS on original engines.

 

[2EHA]

That's really good life out of the timing chain and guides; I presume that's due to the relatively frequent oil changes, and the use of a good oil (Mobil 1 @ 5-6K intervals I think you'd said).

165k is par for the course for a chain, it wouldn’t require any special care to reach it

 

[Number_35]

165k is par for the course for a chain, it wouldn’t require any special care to reach it

Right, but that's assuming that the timing chain and guides are finished and due to be replaced at 165K miles.

In this case, @clinebarger did not replace the chain and guides because they showed no wear. That says to me that they could be good indefinitely.

 

[Number_35]

The 3.5/3.7 engines run a LONG time. We have some police cruisers with 30,000+ HOURS on original engines.

Are those transverse or North-South applications? That is, are you seeing 30K hours out of the ones with the internal water pumps?

 

[earlyre]

Yes, This one only has 1 VCT Phaser per bank while the later ones have 2 VCT Phasers per bank......At least that's how identify them.

THat's a gen 1, vs gen 2 thing. I'm talking EARLY gen 1..
build dates before Jan,16 09 use the Fl400s, After Jan, 16 '09 take the Fl500s.
that date is fairly close to when they stopped making the Vulcan 3.0 at the same Factory, which used the Fl400s... (that's pure speculation on part as to why the filter was changed about a year/year and a half into production.)