Ford cuts prices of F-150 Lightening by 7-16%.

[JeffKeryk]

I don't see any mention of market, I see it functioning just as I described

The billing period I was using, that's your April 19th, 2022 one there, on the top. That -$19.34 was derived from you being paid $0.37373/kWh, not market.

Your NEM charges total $131.94, because there are several months there where you consumed more than you exported.

Per the section I quoted, since your NEM charges exceeded the Minimum Delivery Charge, you are then credited the minimum delivery charge, which almost completely wipes out the $131.94, leaving you owing $4.37.

We are in accord. Please note, some months show negative net usage with a positive NEM charge.
Look at the annual totals: 7kWh Net Usage, $126 Estimated NEM Charges.
The calculations are based on TOU kWh prices, right? That would explain the large ending NEM Charge per kWh.

 

[DwightFrye]

A couple of years ago the pinhead politicians here in California passed a law requiring all new construction homes to have solar panel roofs. I don't know if it has gone into effect yet but it was estimated to add $20k to the cost of each average home. Nice of them to make home prices even less affordable. I doubt that they considered the insurance ramifications or the cost to the homeowner around the year 2045 who is looking at a roof at the end of its useful life. Let alone whatever the useful life of the solar panels will be.

However for the homeowners with two incomes that are mortgaged to the hilt to pay for their new $750,000 home and have a new $50k EV in their driveway, their electricity bills will be lower than their neighbors. Nice for those that can afford it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

A couple of years ago the pinhead politicians here in California passed a law requiring all new construction homes to have solar panel roofs. I don't know if it has gone into effect yet but it was estimated to add $20k to the cost of each average home. Nice of them to make home prices even less affordable. I doubt that they considered the insurance ramifications or the cost to the homeowner around the year 2045 who is looking at a roof at the end of its useful life. Let alone whatever the useful life of the solar panels will be.

However for the homeowners with two incomes that are mortgaged to the hilt to pay for their new $750,000 home and have a new $50k EV in their driveway, their electricity bills will be lower than their neighbors. Nice for those that can afford it.

I doubt the incremental cost to install solar in a large housing complex is $20K a pop. Economies of scale and mass production building is a lot cheaper than a one off project.

The people I have talked to with these systems love their solar. Imaging living in the Central Valley and paying for AC...
$300 electricity per month is nuthin' in Sac.

 

[OVERKILL]

We are in accord. Please note, some months show negative net usage with a positive NEM charge.
Look at the annual totals: 7kWh Net Usage, $126 Estimated NEM Charges.
The calculations are based on TOU kWh prices, right? That would explain the large ending NEM Charge per kWh.

You get credited at a slightly lower rate than what you buy power at, and other charges are included in the NEM charges, which is why, even if your net usage was 0kWh, you'd have a bill.

This ties into why I think the rate of system payoff for the folks now getting $0.04/kWh with NEM 3 is going to be significantly longer than it appears on the surface. The exports and consumption don't just cancel each other out, if we substitute the NEM 3 rate into the above image with no other changes, that -$19.34 becomes $98.75.

 

[Dave P.]

I would think anyone who buys an electronic or brand new to the market product should accept anything can happen with price down the road. Computers, TVs anything. In just a couple years the market will be flooded with EVs that will need price reductions to move.

But for me, got to enjoy life while you can, so whatever as long as you can afford it.
I remember when flat panel TVs first came out, get this, my wife's boss paid $35,000 for one. (thirty five thousand dollars) and I am grabbing at straws but think it was like 30 inches or something.

Anyone should accept ANY vehicle is going to lose value sooner or later.

When VCR's first came out in approx. 1980 (?) my boss paid $800.00!! When I bought my last one before extinction, I paid $19.99 new off the shelf! Once I buy something, unless some place else might price match, I stop looking at prices. Ignorance truly is bliss.

 

[4WD]

When VCR's first came out in approx. 1980 (?) my boss paid $800.00!! When I bought my last one before extinction, I paid $19.99 new off the shelf! Once I buy something, unless some place else might price match, I stop looking at prices. Ignorance truly is bliss.

My first (company) cell phone was $4k and my boss was happy to sign - in today‘s dollars allot more …

 

[JeffKeryk]

@OVERKILL as I better understand the NEM2 program, it helps me optimise use. Now, the annual cost is peanuts in comparison, but knowledge is power, as they say.
I would like the table to show (kWh * price) for the consumption and generation values.
I charge the Model 3 to "Ready to depart by 5AM"; I did this to avoid grid use during high use times, but not primarily for savings. This was to avoid neighborhood brown outs, etc. I thought it might not matter when I charged. cost wise because of low monthly bills.

I would imagine that the rule is simple; consume when TOU rates are low and hope the sun shines... No magic here.

Any other guidance? Thanks!
This helps, as I pass this information on to others. People ask me about solar, charging, etc. I try to base decsions on data; what I think just might be bad information.

If I were to purchase solar today, NEM3 would push me into bttery storage and tell PG&E to get lost.

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL as I better understand the NEM2 program, it helps me optimise use. Now, the annual cost is peanuts in comparison, but knowledge is power, as they say.
I would like the table to show (kWh * price) for the consumption and generation values.
I charge the Model 3 to "Ready to depart by 5AM"; I did this to avoid grid use during high use times, but not primarily for savings. This was to avoid neighborhood brown outs, etc. I thought it might not matter when I charged. cost wise because of low monthly bills.

I would imagine that the rule is simple; consume when TOU rates are low and hope the sun shines... No magic here.

Any other guidance? Thanks!
This helps, as I pass this information on to others. People ask me about solar, charging, etc. I try to base decsions on data; what I think just might be bad information.

If I were to purchase solar today, NEM3 would push me into bttery storage and tell PG&E to get lost.

Yes, they are planning on NEM 3 pushing people into battery storage, I believe that was one of the reasons for the massive cost reduction.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

And in 44 years odds are Bob is going to be replacing or upgrading those solar panels, at least once, possibly twice. Notice I didn't mention a roof. Even if we factor out the roof, Bob is going to pay more for it because the panels have to come down to do the roof, even if Bob bails on solar. This old timer doesn't have that much time to breakeven, let alone make a profit.

In solar defense though, for a homesteader of "off the grid" usage, it is primo. Another other reason is BS

 

[alarmguy]

In solar defense though, for a homesteader of "off the grid" usage, it is primo. Another other reason is BS

Very true, but it would depend on the size of the home because it’s extremely expensive to be off the grid using lithium battery packs.
Their lifespan is only 8 to 10 years at best
And not unrealistic to expect to pay $10,000 installed for a small home it might be realistic to expect even more than that.
You might end up going through three sets of battery packs over the 25 year lifespan of a solar panel

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Very true, but it would depend on the size of the home it’s extremely expensive to be off the grid using lithium battery packs.
Their lifespan is only 8 to 10 years at best
And not unrealistic to expect to pay $10,000 installed for a small home it might be realistic to expect even more than that.
You might end up going through three sets of battery packs over the 25 year lifespan of a solar panel

I say for that application, to hell with Lithium batteries. I forget what kind of battery is was, but in old Las Vegas, many casinos had battery back up aswell as diesel gens. Again, dont remember the type of battery, but at the time they were 50 years old and still good.

 

[alarmguy]

I say for that application, to hell with Lithium batteries. I forget what kind of battery is was, but in old Las Vegas, many casinos had battery back up aswell as diesel gens. Again, dont remember the type of battery, but at the time they were 50 years old and still good.

Well forget what batteries you maybe thinking of.
I was commenting on going off the grid with solar that you were mentioning in previous posts.
I was assuming you meant going off the grid in a way you still had modern appliances but I could be assuming wrong?
Anyway if one is talking “going off the grid” with solar and still everyday appliances just like when you were on the grid but now 100% solar you need lithium battery backup and can figure that is an extra $10,000 in addition to the cost of the solar panels (general example it could be more depending how large) and will have to be replaced about every 8 years.

Also note solar systems can not work without a place for excess energy to go so that pretty much means either connected to the grid or a battery backup system.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

100% solar you need lithium battery backup

This is not true.

Lithium, not really needed. My neighbor has had solar for 20 years now and has a lead acid system. Lithium might have some advantages, but he uses deep cycle batteries.

 

[dogememe]

They want $71k for the one at my local dealer and it's a used 2022 with less than 5k miles. It's just a hard sell at that price. It would be different especially as a truck if it was comparable to the ICE versions. A Lightning Platinum price puts you in a regular fully loaded Limited. As much as I love EVs if I needed a truck and wanted top of the line, I'd rather have the 450hp twin turbo Ecoboost 3.5 Limited. That's a beautiful truck. I would honestly like the Lightning more if it looked more like the regular F150 trims. I think the front light bar makes it look cheap.

It’s funny, I like the front light bar, but I’m not a fan of what they did on the back.

 

[alarmguy]

This is not true.

Lithium, not really needed. My neighbor has had solar for 20 years now and has a lead acid system. Lithium might have some advantages, but he uses deep cycle batteries.

You are correct, lead acid can be used and this is why I mentioned size of home, appliances ect. Most people would expect the home to operate as it does with the grid. Im talking typical 2000 sq ft home with all the conveniences of central heat and air, typical home appliances ect.
It can be done with lead acid too but I would think impractical for much the population and their lifespan would be even less in the typical home. Im not talking about a cabin type home in a rural area.

I guess my point being much of the population I think, even today, is under the impression that solar panels on their typical homes will work if there is a black out and the power from the grid goes out. The panels will not work in the daytime with the sun shining bright without either:
1. being connected to the grid OR being connected to a battery system.

 

[UncleDave]

I say for that application, to hell with Lithium batteries. I forget what kind of battery is was, but in old Las Vegas, many casinos had battery back up aswell as diesel gens. Again, dont remember the type of battery, but at the time they were 50 years old and still good.

Probably nickel iron batteries.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

You are correct, lead acid can be used and this is why I mentioned size of home, appliances ect. Most people would expect the home to operate as it does with the grid. Im talking typical 2000 sq ft home with all the conveniences of central heat and air, typical home appliances ect.
It can be done with lead acid too but I would think impractical for much the population and their lifespan would be even less in the typical home. Im not talking about a cabin type home in a rural area.

I guess my point being much of the population I think, even today, is under the impression that solar panels on their typical homes will work if there is a black out and the power from the grid goes out. The panels will not work in the daytime with the sun shining bright without either:
1. being connected to the grid OR being connected to a battery system.

imagine if everyone had lithium battery backup in their home and apt. that much lithium need could start a global war.........

 

[UncleDave]

The panels will not work in the daytime with the sun shining bright without either:
1. being connected to the grid OR being connected to a battery system.

A number of vendors have battery free /grid down solutions that will work with just sunlight.

Enphase's sun up backup will operate without a battery and in a grid down situation, as will the Sol ARK, and the Outback Skybox.

 

[alarmguy]

A number of vendors have battery free /grid down solutions that will work with just sunlight.

Enphase's sun up backup will operate without a battery and in a grid down situation, as will the Sol ARK, and the Outback Skybox.

I wasnt aware of these but in a quick search on Emphases website still shows this as a half backed solution, meaning if the power goes out the homeowner is not going to enjoy having a full house of unrestricted power from the sun like they would with a battery pack.

On the website pretty much states that it gives you some power but not intended for full back up.
It kind of confirms what I am saying, many if not most homeowners to this day may not know their solar panels will not give power during a black out is all I am saying... whether or not an enthusiast in a forum like this or other does some kind of work around is another story but its not the standard installation by any means. Many people only find out their solar panels do not work on the East Coast is after a hurricane. It's always in the news, Im not sure of the cost but at least this is something that does at least seem to provide some power like a robust portable generator may but not a whole house generator.
Also when all said and done, in that case you maybe better off with a portable generator because it will give you power at night time and heavy cloud cover too which is typically after a storm. Maybe cost a lot less too.

https://enphase.com/homeowners/sunlight-backup-user-guide

 

[UncleDave]

I wasnt aware of these but in a quick search on Emphases website still shows this as a half backed solution, meaning if the power goes out the homeowner is not going to enjoy having a full house of unrestricted power from the sun like they would with a battery pack.

On the website pretty much states that it gives you some power but not intended for full back up.
It kind of confirms what I am saying, many if not most homeowners to this day may not know their solar panels will not give power during a black out is all I am saying... whether or not an enthusiast in a forum like this or other does some kind of work around is another story but its not the standard installation by any means. Many people only find out their solar panels do not work on the East Coast is after a hurricane. It's always in the news, Im not sure of the cost but at least this is something that does at least seem to provide some power like a robust portable generator may but not a whole house generator.
Also when all said and done, in that case you maybe better off with a portable generator because it will give you power at night time and heavy cloud cover too which is typically after a storm. Maybe cost a lot less too.
View attachment 168359
https://enphase.com/homeowners/sunlight-backup-user-guide

We agree people buy all kinds of things they have no idea about.

A battery has many of the same limitations - like poor experience when trying to run central AC off one.