Follow-up to Do Filters Filter?

[Roger]

Last February I posted the results of a particle count done on a PureOne filter. Since then I've had the chance to do a 2nd test for comparison using a Motorcraft FL-1A filter. Both oil samples were taken from my 95 Club Wagon with a 5.8L V8. It just turned 100k miles. The 1st oil was Penn HM 10W30 in use 3,000 miles. The latest was Havoline 10w30 in use 3,100 miles.

The original test with the PureOne filter had these results:

59,197 P/ML >2 microns,
45,106 P/ML >5 microns,
75 P/ML >15 microns,
1 P/ML >25 microns,
0 P/ML >50 microns,
0 P/ML >100 microns.

The 2nd test with the Motorcraft filter came in as follows:

48,021 P/ML >2 microns,
37,106 P/ML >5 microns,
36 P/ML >15 microns,
1 P/ML >25 microns,
0 P/ML >50 microns,
0.1 P/ML >100 microns.

P/ML is Particles per Milliliter.

These were not the results I was expecting. I thought the Pureone would have lower numbers, but did not. So, either my assumptions about the PureOne being a more efficient filter are wrong, and the Motorcraft is comparable.

Or, this engine just doesn't generate a lot of junk in the first place that needs to be filtered out.

Or, the results were influenced by the Auto-RX treatment run immediately before this oil. I used RX to fix a leak. The engine was probably clean to begin with.

Or, ????

I was able to run this test for another forum member using a bypass system and his results were significanlty better than both of these. So I'm confident the test will discriminate between oil samples.

I convinced my tech to run one last test for me. My Altima has a K&N filter on it and will take a sample in about 1,500 miles. It'll be interesting to see those results considering how little is known about K&N filtering efficiency.

 

[Rick in PA]

Good info. I'd like to see more real world particle distributions on other oil filters. Thanks.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Roger the FL-1A uses a Purolator PureOne filter cartridge in PureOne premium can. SO you should get almost identical results because they are essential the same other then the metal can.

 

[porterdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by Roger:
The 1st oil was Penn HM 10W30 in use 3,000 miles. The latest was Havoline 10w30 in use 3,100 miles.

Or, ????

---

Or the Havoline works better in your motor.

Too many uncontrolled variables to make any judgment on why these results are this way. Interesting, though! Could you perhaps repeat the test again duplicating the conditions (within reason of course) of either the first or second trial?

Robert

 

[Spector]

Or one other possibiltiy that was not mentioned. Filters in general are useless appendages for day to day filtering and are primarily for catastophic failures in todays modern engines with todays new oils. the best test, run a car with no filter and see what the count is

 

[edwardh1]

wonder what the numbers are on a VW bug with the screen filter

 

[Roger]

JB: These results do tend to reinforce the notion that the filter element between the P1 and Motorcraft are the same, but I remain skeptical. I've just never bought into Russ Kinze's statement in the Engine Oil Study that the Motorcraft is a P1 because he said the dye on the two filters looked to be the same. That's really not much true evidence in my mind. Besides too many other people have posted email responses from Purolator claiming it ain't so. A couple of years ago there was a very knowledgeable guy posting on the Edmunds oil site, tsjay, who worked for a filter manufacturer and he said the two were not the same either (post #298). Even with my own results I posted here, I remain a really big "Doubting Thomas" about the Ford filters having a PureOne element in them. Still, I could be wrong.

Porterdog: Yup, I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Chevron produced oil. Chevron's Havoline is readily available where I live while branded Chevron is not. In fact, I'm ready to change the Mobil 1 in my Nissan Maxima, and will put Havoline in it for the 1st time. I have a history of Mobil 1 used oil analysis on that car. If the Havoline UOA eventually comes back the same or better than M1, I'll probably stay with it and stop using Mobil 1. Simply a cost vs benefit comparsion for me at that point. I may eventually run Havoline in all my vehicles.

I put a Wix filter on the van when I replaced the oil this time. I may still ask the tech at work to test that one too even though he only agreed to do the K&N. If the results keep coming back the same with different filters, there probably is some other variable at work here besides the filter. In which case, I'd wonder if Spector might be right.

It really would be good to get a sample of "unfiltered" oil as a test control. But I don't know how.

 

[labman]

Yeah, some real numbers. My feeling is that results are much the same. You might get that much variation between 2 examples of the same filter especially with the other variations you report.

I am guessing the Pure 1 is more expensive than the Motorcraft. It is hard to justify the premium price with these numbers.

You are tempting me to start doing used oil analysis. I wish I had them for all the different brands I have used on my truck.

[ August 08, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: labman ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Roger one thing to consider in the oil selection. The used oil analysis only spots wear metal and a few chemical markers. It will not tell you how much varnish is being deposited on engine surfaces directly. While good trnding interpratation will catch this in the long run as sludge I doubt it would catch varnish. Just something to keep in mind. I prefer to keep varnish at a minimum and this is also one of the reason I traditional use synthetic oil. I too am trying Chevron Supreme right now.

 

[Ken2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roger:

...
Porterdog: Yup, I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Chevron produced oil. Chevron's Havoline is readily available where I live while branded Chevron is not. In fact, I'm ready to change the Mobil 1 in my Nissan Maxima, and will put Havoline in it for the 1st time. I have a history of Mobil 1 used oil analysis on that car. If the Havoline UOA eventually comes back the same or better than M1, I'll probably stay with it and stop using Mobil 1. Simply a cost vs benefit comparsion for me at that point. I may eventually run Havoline in all my vehicles.
...

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Nothing wrong with ChevronTexaco's Chevron & Havoline oils, but sythetic will have better oxidation and thermal stability. You'll have longer oil life, and maybe a cleaner engine, with the syn, and also better oil protection at very low and very hot temperatures.


Ken