fluid alternatives to atf+4

[pjc360]

no more input from anybody or advice? i talked to the owner of the transmission shop about having a shift kit installed and he said he'd install a shift kit for 150 to 200 bucks, and he said but to be honest with you i have never been impressed with any of the shift kits. he said i can make your transmission shift just as good as a shift kit just by doing a few things on it, is he blowing smoke up my bumb? lol and i dont get why he said no to dexronVi? he said oh no thats a synthetic like it was a bad thing? maybe he said ether atf+3 or dexronIII no synthetics, i dont know why he has a problem with synthetics?? i was thinking dexronVI would be a good fluid to run in my transmission.
He also said no to type f and said whoever uses type f in a torque flight is stupid lol when i know guys that are smarter then he could ever dream of being that use type f in the torque flights lol so i guess it just comes down to personal prefrence???

 

[Brettm1388]

Valvoline MaxLife ATF. It's got a whole bunch of applications including ATF +4 but, you have to call Valvoline in order to verify since its not on the bottle. 1-800-team-val. As far as a shift kit, depends on what is being installed as to whether it's worth it. If its just adjusting shift points & firmness, its a waste of money. If its actually increasing line pressure, then it's worth the money.

 

[pjc360]

i was considering valvoline maxlife atf and i was told that it wasn't a good ide because it has high mileage additives that well swell up seals? my transmission is brand new not even 500 miles on it yet, but on the other hand i have heard that it is good stuff, and i have read that it is compatible to +4 they just dont put it on there bottle because of a liscensing issue with chrysler.
Is the max life atf ok to use in a brand new transmission? valvoline says it is ok for new and used transmissions and will increase transmission life. and its a synthetic blend correct?

 

[Brettm1388]

The Maxlife engine oil is a synthetic blend but, the Maxlife ATF is a full synthetic. As far as the additives, I think that any swelling of the seals would be minimal and that most of the additives in the ATF are beneficial to any tranny.

 

[pjc360]

so the valvoline max life would be a good choice for freshly re-built transmission as well, not just older transmissions?
And the guy who re-built my transmission said synthetics are a no no in my transmission, why i do not know? i have heard some people say that tho not to run a synthetic in the 727s and A-500 and A-518s, but then again i have talked to people who do run synthetics in this transmissions with no issue.

 

[meep]

i can't think of any reason not to run a syn in the transmission, except that for break-in a regular fluid might be a little better. Mobil 1 ATF would get my vote, not ford type F.

 

[Brettm1388]

Let me put it this way, if it were my transmission, I'd be running maxlife atf in it. I couldn't see a synthetic causing any problems, only benefiting you with more shear stability, better flow at low temps, and the additives in the maxlife atf will help to keep the internals clean.

 

[Brettm1388]

Originally Posted By: meep
i can't think of any reason not to run a syn in the transmission, except that for break-in a regular fluid might be a little better. Mobil 1 ATF would get my vote, not ford type F.


+1 Mobil 1 ATF would be a great choice as well

 

[pjc360]

ya, i dont understand why he was against running synthetic in it ether? maybe he is just part of that group of people who say synthetic atfs are not good for the old torqueflights?
i am new to running a synthetic atf as well, i have always run regular dexronIII in my previous torque flight transmissions and my old man ran type f in his torqueflights but he also had his torqueflights modified quite a bit, to where i do not, not yet anyways... the guy who re-built my transmission told me they did some modyfications to my transmission when they re-built it and he said it doesnt really need a shift kit?? i have always been told shift kits are great and extend the life of the transmission because they will be shifting better?
I'm wondering what kind of modyfications he could have done? the few i can think of is maybe increased the line pressure a little bit and increased shift points? and maybe added more clutch packs? i dont know what else a guy can do to modify the transmission without adding a shift kit?
I dont see why synthetic would hurt the transmission ether? i am going to put at least 1000 miles or more on it before i do the switch and i will ether run maxlife or the new dexronVI, builder said no to the dexronVI but i dont know why i have talked to other builders who run it with great results in the overdrive chrysler trannys? he also said whoever runs type f in a torqueflight is an idiot lol.
Apparently he has never talked to majority of the mopar guys who run type f in there torqueflights religously with no problems, my old man ran it in his 727 and he was no idiot by all means he was the most mechanically intellegent person i have ever met.
I have seen him tear his 727 out at 8 a.m and re-build it and have it bolted back in the trucj full re-built and parked back in the driveway by 3 or 4 in the afternoon in the same day so he wasn't an idiot. i have seen him do an engine swap in a old dodge gas pickup in the same day and have it complete and done so i just cant believe him saying no type f is a bad idea specially since the smartest guy i knew ran it along with a a whole bunch of other mopar guys who run type f in there muscle cars? if it was a dumb idea then why do so many people do it?

 

[pjc360]

i talked to a guy on the ramchargercentral website who re-built the A-518 overdrive transmission in his 1990 dodge cummins he said he put type f in it and has ran nothing else, and he has already put 85 thousand miles on the transmission with no problems at all.
I think alot of people hear the horror stories of running type f in the wrong transmission or they just firmly believe it was for the ford c series automatics and nothing else, but ford and dodge used alot of the same internal auotmatic parts such as clutch plates and clutches, i just can not believe that type f is a bad idea in a torqueflight, maybe in a stock torqueflight but if you have a modifyed torqueflight i know its ok to use.
I was under the impression it was the better atf for the torqueflight because it has a better coifficient of friction therefore when it shifts it is not slipping and wearing pieces out as fast as compared to a high friction modifyed atf?

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: pjc360
....my old man ran it in his 727 and he was no idiot by all means he was the most mechanically intellegent person i have ever met.


So why don't you just ask him?

 

[pjc360]

because he passed away last year.

 

[Propflux01]

Then why not go with what he has 'taught' you in the time he was alive? I mean, Not to "diss" him by any means, but I'm getting that you want to follow his advice with the type "F", but somethings making you question yourself on it. Since you don't seem to want to go with what seems the majority on this topic's suggestions are (the ATF +4), and you want less slippage and quicker shifts, why not go with the type "F" and go from there?

 

[pjc360]

If i were dealing with the A-727 3 speed automatic i wouldnt even have asked this question and i would have put type f in it a long time ago.im dealing with a different transmission then what my old man dealt with, my pops ran type f in the 3 speed A-727s, what i have is the A-518 wich is pretty much a 727 with an overdrive attatched to the back of the transmission.
Thats why i have been trying to figure out if type f is ok to use in the A-518, the only thing that makes me question using it is the overdrive unit, i dont know if type f is ok for the plenatary gears in the overdrive, but i dont see why it wouldnt be? And i have a non lock up converter so its not like i have a converter clutch to keep happy, wich i hear converter clutches and type f do not get along.
I think alot of people here type f and automatically think its for ford and only ford and cant be used in anything else, and i think alot of people have heard the old storys of how type f ruins seals and that it was only meant for brass clutch packs or whatever and do not realize how good of a fluid it really is for the torque flight transmissions.
My pops told me this, he said a soft shift in an auto transmission brings wear and heat and eventually destroys the transmission, he said a grabby firm shift is what you want and type f has the best coifficient of friction and it has no friction modifyers so it allows the clutches to engadge better over a atf that has alot of frictionm modifyers. Basically what i was told is that soft smooth shifts in a chrysler auto is a bad thing and that firm grabby shifts are a good thing.
I have only talked to ! other guy that has ran type f in a chrysler A-518 and he told me he has put 80 thousand miles on the transmission after rebuilding it and has used nothing but type f. im thinking i might just say screw it and try it. i was just trying to gather some info on weather running type f in an A-518 would be drastically different then in a 727?

 

[pjc360]

in short i dont know how type f would work in the newer overdrive torque flights? and i dont know if they use different clutch materials in the a-518 compared to the 727s. my old man was running type f in the 70's 727s, did they use different clutch materials in the 70s 727s then what they used in the late 80s early 90s overdrive A-518s?

 

[rufushusky]

Why not run a DexIII(H) fluid? Kinda meets in the middle. Not as much friction modifiers as ATF+4 but has some (obv. unlike type F).

 

[pjc360]

is valvoline max life atf considered a dexronIII (h) fluid?
or by (h) do you mean just a standard non synthetic dexronIII?

 

[rufushusky]

Originally Posted By: pjc360
is valvoline max life atf considered a dexronIII (h) fluid?
or by (h) do you mean just a standard non synthetic dexronIII?


Yes max life has Dex III(h) certs, along with a dozen or so other certs such as Mercon LV. Not that I would run that fluid in applications requiring that spec. But IMHO any Dex III(h) fluid should work well, Chevron MD3, Pennzoil Multivehicle, etc etc are all good fluids. I am running super tech Dex/Merc with a bottle of lubeguard and it is running just fine in my 4R100.

 

[pjc360]

so i talked to a valvoline fluid technician today and he told me there max life atf is a universal synthetic atf that would work fine in my transmission, i asked him if it was just a synthetic dexronIII basically, and he said no its a universal fluid.
So with that being said would i get firmer shifts with just a standard dexron/merconIII fluid over the synthetic max life?
I am trying to pick a fluid that will provide firmer shifts if possible, whats going to provide the firmer shift, standard dexronIII or max life?
Being that the max life is a synthetic leads me to believe the shifts would be a little softer compared to the standard dexronIII. Also the guy who re-built my transmission told me to stay away from the synthetic atf's? and i do not know why? he didnt really explain why he just made it sound like running a synthetic atf in my transmission would be a bad idea, but i cant imagine why myself?
The max life to me is more appealing because its a synthetic, but the only thing that makes me leary is my builder saying not to run it and the softer shifts it could possibly bring? and i have also wondered if the guy who re-built my transmission used a different clutch or internal parts that wouldnt get along well with synthetic atf's? is that possible?

 

[zrxkawboy]

You're over-thinking this. Maxlife will work fine. ATF+4 will also work fine.

Synthetics are a good thing.