Flew American's new 321XLR

[dishdude]

This is probably the nicest cabin you can fly domestically in the US. It's typically only used on the longest routes like LAX/SFO to JFK/BOS. I flew LAX to JFK. I have to say the cabin and "suite" are really nice, comfortable and private. There's a door that closes it off to the aisle that hasn't been approved by the FAA yet, but even with it open it was extremely private. There was a lot of turbulence across the country today and since I sleep like a baby on a lie flat in turbulent conditions, I ended up sleeping 3 hours even after a cup of coffee!

The seat has to be set at a 60-75 degree angle to the aisle, on takeoff I was being forced into the wall, a really odd feeling.

 

[4wd]

I can’t believe Boeing didn’t use the B797 designation as a carbon fiber/NEO replacement for the B737 …

 

[Astro14]

I can’t believe Boeing didn’t use the B797 designation as a carbon fiber/NEO replacement for the B737 …

Well, the NMA, “new midsized airplane” was killed by their CEO, a risk-averse bean counter of limited vision and poor judgment.

There is talk of reviving the airplane concept - leveraging 787 fuel-saving systems and construction for a 757 size replacement.

But they have a lot of issues to get though first - ramping up production of the 737 Max to meet delivery schedule (they are 80 airplanes behind at United alone), increasing deliveries of the 787 (again, behind by 20 aircraft at United alone) and getting the 777X through certification.

Once they have those parts of their house in order, they can devote resources to new airplanes.

In the meantime, the 321 XLR is a very nice airplane from a passenger perspective. United’s airplanes have truly lovely interiors.

But crossing the tracks on the Atlantic, and seeing the 321s well below us, it is a dog of an airplane - underpowered and slow - from a pilot perspective.

 

[PWMDMD]

But crossing the tracks on the Atlantic, and seeing the 321s well below us, it is a dog of an airplane - underpowered and slow - from a pilot perspective.

I took one of the first transatlantic Jetblue flights from London to Boston, which I think was on an A321, and I have to admit having only flown 747s and 777s across the pound, it was a little concerning since those planes are so impressive while I might fly an A321 to Toledo. The flight was fine but something did register in my brain that this plane is not quite like the others.

 

[Kira]

What was wrong with the A321? (small?)

 

[frankbee3]

Well, the NMA, “new midsized airplane” was killed by their CEO, a risk-averse bean counter of limited vision and poor judgment.

There is talk of reviving the airplane concept - leveraging 787 fuel-saving systems and construction for a 757 size replacement.

But they have a lot of issues to get though first - ramping up production of the 737 Max to meet delivery schedule (they are 80 airplanes behind at United alone), increasing deliveries of the 787 (again, behind by 20 aircraft at United alone) and getting the 777X through certification.

Once they have those parts of their house in order, they can devote resources to new airplanes.

In the meantime, the 321 XLR is a very nice airplane from a passenger perspective. United’s airplanes have truly lovely interiors.

But crossing the tracks on the Atlantic, and seeing the 321s well below us, it is a dog of an airplane - underpowered and slow - from a pilot perspective.

Astro, are you still flying the 757? One friend said that the Airbus is generally optimized for cruise at the expense of climb rate, where Boeing are generally optimized for climb at the expense of cruise efficiency. Does that assessment sound accurate to you?

 

[Astro14]

Astro, are you still flying the 757? One friend said that the Airbus is generally optimized for cruise at the expense of climb rate, where Boeing are generally optimized for climb at the expense of cruise efficiency. Does that assessment sound accurate to you?

A bit of an oversimplification, but for the 757, it was designed for high/hot/short airfields and had the thrust/weight to excel in those environments. It still way outperforms other narrow bodies - we often climb at twice their rate. I’ve seen 2,000 FPM climb at 370.

It’s a Porsche among minivans.

But airlines buy airplanes on the basis of fuel economy, because that sells to CEOs, which is how we ended up with the bastardized compromise that is the 737 Max.

 

[I<3oil]

Not bad. Cost of the flight?

 

[frankbee3]

Thanks for that! It makes sense now.

 

[4wd]

Well, the NMA, “new midsized airplane” was killed by their CEO, a risk-averse bean counter of limited vision and poor judgment.

There is talk of reviving the airplane concept - leveraging 787 fuel-saving systems and construction for a 757 size replacement.

But they have a lot of issues to get though first - ramping up production of the 737 Max to meet delivery schedule (they are 80 airplanes behind at United alone), increasing deliveries of the 787 (again, behind by 20 aircraft at United alone) and getting the 777X through certification.

Once they have those parts of their house in order, they can devote resources to new airplanes.

In the meantime, the 321 XLR is a very nice airplane from a passenger perspective. United’s airplanes have truly lovely interiors.

But crossing the tracks on the Atlantic, and seeing the 321s well below us, it is a dog of an airplane - underpowered and slow - from a pilot perspective.

Indeed, I have flown First in new United Neo’s … plus several AME and Euro airlines … These were always the short legs with 787/350/777 doing the fly high …
There has been teething pain with PWPP engines …

 

[fdcg27]

But crossing the tracks on the Atlantic, and seeing the 321s well below us, it is a dog of an airplane - underpowered and slow - from a pilot perspective.

Is it underpowered or underwinged?
For the first four or five hours of a long flight, the 777 300ER can't get very high either and it certainly isn't underpowered.
In the case of the 777 and the single aisle Airbus, the wing is the limiting factor, not available thrust.

 

[Astro14]

Is it underpowered or underwinged?
For the first four or five hours of a long flight, the 777 300ER can't get very high either and it certainly isn't underpowered.
In the case of the 777 and the single aisle Airbus, the wing is the limiting factor, not available thrust.

Given the poor climb rate that other pilots report - thrust.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Very curious to see how well the new A321 XLR does on certain ultra long range ( for a NB ) routes when it’s very hot.

Very annoying for a pilot to be in an aircraft that can’t climb as high as other aircraft ( 777 also ) when the weather is bad, or for turbulence reasons.

Throw in jet engines that take 5 times longer to start ( XLR ) and it’s even more annoying.

 

[dkryan]

Very curious to see how well the new A321 XLR does on certain ultra long range ( for a NB ) routes when it’s very hot.

Very annoying for a pilot to be in an aircraft that can’t climb as high as other aircraft ( 777 also ) when the weather is bad, or for turbulence reasons.

Throw in jet engines that take 5 times longer to start ( XLR ) and it’s even more annoying.

Is the P&W 1100G-JM gtf the only power plant option available on that model?

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Is the P&W 1100G-JM gtf the only power plant option available on that model?

Pretty sure it’s available with the CFM Leap engine also.

Someone correct me if that’s wrong.

 

[I<3oil]

Pretty sure it’s available with the CFM Leap engine also.

Someone correct me if that’s wrong.

Looks like it

CFM LEAP-1A, 78 in (1.98 m) fan
PW1100G-JM, 81 in (2.06 m) fan

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Looks like it

CFM LEAP-1A, 78 in (1.98 m) fan
PW1100G-JM, 81 in (2.06 m) fan

Thanks for checking.

 

[E365]

More photos.

 

[k1xv]

JetBlue is initiating A321XLR non stop service between Boston and Milan in May. I am scheduled to fly from Milan to Boston in mid May. Unfortunately, in coach. But JetBlue's economy service is among the best in single aisle aircraft.

 

[E365]

Boeing better get the Max-10 certified soon….

It won’t have the range of the 321neo/LR/XLR line, but it’s my understanding it closely matches the economics of the 321neo lineup, unlike the Max-9.