Flat earthers???

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Originally Posted By: Bandito440
I'd like to have Andy share a map of the flat earth so I can keep an eye out for the end of it next time I'm traveling.

Heck, I bet a member here lives near the edge. We can just send them out to take photos and end this debate immediately.


I've just finished reading the first of the diskworld novels...they lower people over the edge of the disk to see the elephants and turtles holding it up...the march of the elephants rotating said disk...good book.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
I'd like to have Andy share a map of the flat earth so I can keep an eye out for the end of it next time I'm traveling.

Heck, I bet a member here lives near the edge. We can just send them out to take photos and end this debate immediately.


It'd be cool if we lived on Larry Niven's Ringworld. Then the world would be a ring around the sun. Going east or west takes a really long time but north and south ends up at a really tall wall to keep the atmosphere in or was that vice versa. But a Dyson's sphere would be pretty cool too.
 
Ok, he's on to us guys...

Andy, you are living in your own version of "The Truman Show". Everyone here on Bitog and out in the 'real world' are actors.

Just head straight out to the "Antarctic wall", climb it, and you'll find an escape hatch off of 'The Andy Show' set.

Good luck in your future endeavors.
 
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Speechless.

Once upon a time, before fiber, there's satellite dish TV and satellite phone.

Today we have video conference between timezones, you'd imagine people figure out the earth is not flat by making a few calls to Japan or India or Europe, no?
 
Originally Posted By: SKVenture
Originally Posted By: AndyinAL
I am not the one who brought up vaccines, chemtrails, Monsoon weather patterns, or intelligence differences among regions in the United States.

I do attack NASA because they are known Liars and for now they have the market cornered on space travel. It just seems like after 50 years of being in "space" we could get one darn picture of the earth that is not manipulated, photoshopped or compiled from many other high altitude photographs. Just one!! I am not joking. NASA plainly admits to the most recent image of the Earth being compiled in Photoshop. It's all over the internet, not just in my imagination.

With all of these billions of dollars of satellites and fancy telescope cameras supposedly taking pictures of faraway galaxies you would think they could turn one of those sun of a britches around and get a picture of the Earth. Nope, all we get is more CGI nonsense. The astro-nots on the ISS are always talking about the awesome view out the window of that thing. Can we not get an iPhone up there to snap these awesome pictures of the earth to see what they are seeing?


Andy,

The earth is a sphere.

I do not wish to argue that point however.

I genuinely need to know one thing.

You are so convinced that the government is perpetuating this massive lie and spending all of this money "faking" this concept.

I need to know, in your opinion, why?

What is there to gain convincing people the earth is a sphere if it is indeed flat?

EVERYTHING boils down to one thing with humans. That is "ROI".

Return on Investment.

A person works 8 hours a day for a paycheck.

A country goes to war to maintain/expand their interests.

What is the return on investment in having people think the world is a sphere?

This much effort MUST have a significant ROI considering what you implicate the government is doing.

What is the ROI?

Thanks!


This is exactly what I was wondering..
 
Originally Posted By: AndyinAL
As expected, no one has proven any curvature. And you do not have to be accelerating upwards for there to be differentials in density. Of course things with greater density are going to fall from things with less density, like air

I'm sure Astro and Mola have spit their coffee all over their monitors. By the way, photos run through a meme generator are hardly evidence or educational.

SKVenture's question is a good one. What's the point?
 
Few points before moderators lose their sense of humor

1) Andy did NOT start this topic (anybody want to see if FordCapri started this topic on Andy's behalf?)
2) Nothing Andy has said breaks rules/regulation of this forum. Even though many people are taking potshots at him (myself not excluded) he has not lost his composure
3) You may want to read previous posts made by Andy on this forum on different topics. Once you understand what is going on, *please* just go along with it

Now let us get back to the topic at hand:-

I too often wonder as to how some of the scientific stuff that we take for granted is really derived or measured. But I am coming from more of scientific curiosity perspective whereas Andy is looking at from conspiratorial angle. For example, how do we know that the distance of the Sun from earth or the circumference of the earth. It is not as if somebody took a really long measuring tape and measured it! When you look at the derivation of such physical data, you will find that they are intertwined e.g. distance to the sun is given to derive the size of earth or vice versa; may be not be directly but at least indirectly. Just to take this further, (previous youtube url in this topic; *highly recommended*) the Vsauce's VeraZona bridge example, what kind of instrument is used to measure the 44 mm difference top and bottom of the two bridge pillars separated by mile or so? And how do they ascertain that the measurement is taken at exactly the dead centre of the both pillar? Or for that matter how do they make sure the pillar is perfectly vertical? I mean what is "vertical"? And most importantly, what is the repeatability of that measurement?

In scientific world one can keep on asking question "but why?" like a small curious and innocent child but eventually the answer becomes "because I say so". And if that is the case, then I can not really blame people like Andy who just short circuits the chain of "but why?s" and jump directly to "because my God says so".
 
The only question which Andy needs to answer is if the earth is flat disk, what is on the other side of the disk. It was already asked and I don't believe we got an answer. The answer "there is no other side" will NOT be acceptable.
 
Originally Posted By: AndyinAL
The military had GPS and satellite communication before there were satellites. Still, most all communication is ground-based and transmitted between continents through fiber-optic cables on the ocean floor


Ummm no... Submarine radioman for 12 years. How do you think we get comms from the shore to a deployed Submarine or ship?
 
Hey if the earth were flat...cats would have knocked everything off by now.


I have seen it at sea from the bridge of the sail of a submarine. Ships fall or rise at the point of the visible horizon.
I have navigated around the plant submerged on the same vessel. The earth is not flat.
 
Originally Posted By: AndyinAL
Am I the only one that thinks it is odd we have not returned to the moon since supposedly going there several times without incident 45 years ago? Heck, it is only 240,000 miles away so they say. Instead we have to settle for the ISS which is only 200 to 250 miles up there.. that's like me telling you that I can run from Atlanta to Los Angeles and by proving it to you I leave my house and Run 2 miles and call it a day (instead of the full 2,000), 1 / 1,000th the distance.


We went to the moon to fulfill the promise of an assassinated president and to beat the Soviets there...I think what happened once we got there proved that there really wasn't much practical benefit to visiting the moon. Collect some rocks, drive around in buggies, play a little golf, and be sure to leave a flag held out by wires. But, there was tremendous value in the technical advances needed to be able to get there...for example, I think our space program has to be given a lot of credit for driving the miniaturization of electronics that has given us what would have been supercomputers not so long ago in our pockets.
BTW, I would have to argue that Apollo 13 was not without incident, they did not fulfill their mission of landing on the moon and the crew was nearly lost. We did lose the Apollo 1 crew, although that tragedy occurred on the ground.
At least the Apollo guys got to come home, I think it is becoming clear than a manned Mars mission anytime reasonably soon is most likely going to involve staying there (no matter what happened to Matt Damon).
 
I think a chance has been missed to explore a subject many of us have no experience with - no matter what our strongly held convictions may be.
This could have been a lively two-way discussion with Andy and probably a few more with the same ideas. Too bad it's turned into another ill-mannered free for all, just like most attempts at open discussions. Politics, anyone?
You've got guts Andy. Sorry we spoiled the opportunity.
 
There is no such thing as a lively 2 way discussion about whether the Earth is flat our round. It's settled science and millions of people's jobs literally depend on and are built around the fact the Earth is a sphere. EVERYTHING on Earth would be completely different if ti wasn't a sphere.

There are hundreds of weather satellites that take pictures of the Earth every second and the images are publicly available.

Would you guys like to have a polite discussion about whether 1+1 doesn't = 2?
crackmeup2.gif
 
This is the Flat Earth model that Andy is talking about. The center is the North pole and the Antarctic is a wall of ice that surrounds everything. So no water spilling over the edge, no ships falling off the edge.
From the navigational point of view it could make sense. You still go around a circle when going east/west when the compass always points to the middle. There would be a problem, however when one tries to make a full circle going North/South.
As it can be clearly seen, there is no problem with going over the Arctic, but you cannot go over the Antarctic.

They also claim that the sun and the Moon orbit inside that circle (when looking from above) and the sunsets and sunrises are are nothing more than the sun disappearing into the "vanishing" point. However, it's quite easy to observe that the sun is setting behind the horizon. It doesn't simply disappear because it went too far away.

TwoModels.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The only question which Andy needs to answer is if the earth is flat disk, what is on the other side of the disk. It was already asked and I don't believe we got an answer. The answer "there is no other side" will NOT be acceptable.


On the "B" side is Man on the Moon:
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
This is the Flat Earth model that Andy is talking about. The center is the North pole and the Antarctic is a wall of ice that surrounds everything. So no water spilling over the edge, no ships falling off the edge.
From the navigational point of view it could make sense. You still go around a circle when going east/west when the compass always points to the middle. There would be a problem, however when one tries to make a full circle going North/South.
As it can be clearly seen, there is no problem with going over the Arctic, but you cannot go over the Antarctic.

They also claim that the sun and the Moon orbit inside that circle (when looking from above) and the sunsets and sunrises are are nothing more than the sun disappearing into the "vanishing" point. However, it's quite easy to observe that the sun is setting behind the horizon. It doesn't simply disappear because it went too far away.



Great, now that Kim Jong Un has been clued in by this thread he can threaten to fire nukes at the Antarctic ring to make a hole that will let the oceans drain away...unless we sign a peace treaty with him, withdraw our troops, let him occupy S Korea, given him 1,000,000 tons of kim chi, etc.

Seriously, I could see having a great BITOG discussion about something like the existence of life elsewhere in the universe...I'm sure there would be some flamethrowing, but that's something where reasonable differences of opinion can be discussed. In the case of a fact that some will deny because they have an overwhelming irrational need to believe in something else, how can we have a reasonable discussion?
 
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