First time learning how to ride motorcycle

[KrisZ]

Did you really write what you just said above after doing this two pages ago? Possibly I missed the context of both of the posts.

Yes, it appears you did.
The first time I brought up racing because people were discussing trail braking, which is quite an advanced braking technique, usually taught at racing schools. It's a good skill to have, but not needed for street riding and definitely not by new riders.

The second time I brought up motogp was to simply point out that these riders can control the rear wheel with their body position, because people brought up stoppies. I did this to point out that having the rear wheel in the air or not, is not an indication of how hard one is braking, which was sort of implied.

 

[02SE]

If your only using the front brake lever, then it doesn’t matter if the rear wheel is in the air, on the ground or gone altogether, the front brake is contributing 100% of the stopping power.
Your arguments simply don’t make sense, but you insist I misinterpreted your post when it’s quite clear it’s not the case.

Say Hallelujah, EXACTLY. You finally get it.

YOU simply didn't understand that's what I said...

@AZjeff posted a video of WSBK rider Toprak Razgatlioglu braking hard coming into turns on his Yamaha WSBK spec bike. He's braking hard enough that his rear tire is often in the air. So at that point, his front brakes are contributing 100% of his braking.

I replied with this in post #108: " Yep, most sportbikes can achieve 100% of braking with the front brake. Of course the rider needs to have their braking skills up to snuff, to achieve that."

Then you decided to bring up heavy cruisers for some reason in post #110. I replied I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could achieve lifting the rear tire off the ground and doing a stoppie. I should've added slowing down hard enough to lift the rear tire off the ground, but that seemed obvious if they can't do stoppie.

I can go back and quote all those posts if necessary, but I can't believe your lack of comprehension has prompted this ridiculous back-and-forth, and accusing me of posting BS.

 

[KrisZ]

Say Hallelujah, EXACTLY. You finally get it.

YOU simply didn't understand that's what I said...

@AZjeff posted a video of WSBK rider Toprak Razgatlioglu braking hard coming into turns on his Yamaha WSBK spec bike. He's braking hard enough that his rear tire is often in the air. So at that point, his front brakes are contributing 100% of his braking.

I replied with this in post #108: " Yep, most sportbikes can achieve 100% of braking with the front brake. Of course the rider needs to have their braking skills up to snuff, to achieve that."

Then you decided to bring up heavy cruisers for some reason in post #110. I replied I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could achieve lifting the rear tire off the ground and doing a stoppie. I should've added slowing down hard enough to lift the rear tire off the ground, but that seemed obvious if they can't do stoppie.

I can go back and quote all those posts if necessary, but I can't believe your lack of comprehension has prompted this ridiculous back-and-forth, and accusing me of posting BS.

I don’t get the hallelujah, you’re back to equating lifting the rear tire with 100% braking.
Perhaps to avoid going in circles again, please define what do you mean by 100% braking.

 

[Bonz]

I don’t get the hallelujah, you’re back to equating lifting the rear tire with 100% braking.
Perhaps to avoid going in circles again, please define what do you mean by 100% braking.

This is like freaking groundhog day. No not the literal day so it's not taken out of context. But the movie.

What's the best way to get out of a hole? It's to quit digging.

 

[02SE]

I don’t get the hallelujah, you’re back to equating lifting the rear tire with 100% braking.
Perhaps to avoid going in circles again, please define what do you mean by 100% braking.

I can't believe this. You HAD it.

Very simply. If the rear wheel is in the air, the front brake is contributing 100% of the stopping power. Those are YOUR words.

Although I left out "on the ground, or gone altogether" from your comment. Because once the rear tire is in the air, it doesn't matter if you're mashing the rear brake pedal (or thumb rear brake lever as some race bikes have) for all you're worth, the rear tire is adding zero percent of your stopping power at that point.

 

[02SE]

This is like freaking groundhog day. No not the literal day so it's not taken out of context. But the movie.

What's the best way to get out of a hole? It's to quit digging.

It's beginning to feel that way...

 

[Bonz]

I don’t get the hallelujah, you’re back to equating lifting the rear tire with 100% braking.
Perhaps to avoid going in circles again, please define what do you mean by 100% braking.

If the rear wheel is in the air, whatever percentage of the front brake that is being used is a moot point. The front brake is doing 100% of the braking since it's the only brake attached to a wheel that's still on the ground. I said that a number of posts back. Even if the front brake is only doing 50% of what it can, if it's the only wheel on the ground then 100% of the braking is being provided by the front wheel. I don't know how to say it more clearly nor can O2SE. Can anyone provide more clarity, as some of us must be missing the mark.

 

[KrisZ]

I can't believe this. You HAD it.

Very simply. If the rear wheel is in the air, the front brake is contributing 100% of the stopping power. Those are YOUR words.

Although I left out "on the ground, or gone altogether" from your comment. Because once the rear tire is in the air, it doesn't matter if you're mashing the rear brake pedal (or thumb rear brake lever as some race bikes have) for all you're worth, the rear tire is adding zero percent of your stopping power at that point.

Yes, I understand that, but you specifically said "Yep, most sportbikes can achieve 100% of braking with the front brake." and that cruisers cannot lift the rear tire during hard braking. Did you mean then that cruisers cannot achieve 100% of braking?
You linked 100% braking with lifting up of the rear wheel. What do you mean by 100%?

 

[02SE]

I give up. Think whatever you want.

 

[Bonz]

The OCD about semantics and nuance is over the top. Intent and context has been explained numerous times by at least two people and clear rational examples of what was meant have been given. BLS, can you come in and save the day? Maybe post a couple pictures of the people you've rubbed elbows with that would soothe our souls.

 

[UncleDave]

That’s why there are books and physical classes to learn basic and advanced motorcycle skills. Once you are ready, track days teach more advanced braking, body position, and more.
I got into a loud argument with some folks at a bike run. The point of contention was counter steering. Guys had 20 years riding experience and claimed to never used counter steering. Ego is the biggest obstacle to learning and motorcycle riders (some) have HUGE egos.

Ego is often the enemy of learning many skills in a shorter vs longe amount of time. Shooting also comes to mind.

Ask anyone that doenst believe in counter steering to ride a bicycle right next to a curb and see what happens.
Just about everyone that has ridden a bicycle has had this happen and know the result.

I took two riding schools - Keith Code ( tracked with Eddie Lawson it was epic) , who taught you to use counter steering, and Reg Pridmore who espoused what he calls " body steering" which seemed to me to be less effective than counter steering

 

[02SE]

I took two riding schools - Keith Code ( tracked with Eddie Lawson it was epic) , who taught you to use counter steering, and Reg Pridmore who espoused what he calls " body steering" which seemed to me to be less effective than counter steering

I did some Jason Pridmore schools at Pahrump, back in the day.

I recall helping instruct a couple of Oklahoma State Troopers, on high-speed riding on their patrol Hayabusa's at MMP years ago. The Keith Code school was there that day. I went out on my own 1st gen Hayabusa so they could see what it was capable of. It's funny, most people that have never ridden one, think that all they are good for is straight-line acceleration and top-speed riding.

On track, they feel like a bigger GSXR1000, with more power.

A picture from the track riding session.

The bikes when not prepped for track duty.

 

[Japanese]

Can anyone provide more clarity, as some of us must be missing the mark.

He is telling you that you can use 100% of your front brake (don't use the rear at all) even if the rear end is on the ground. Meaning that a heavier bike like cruisers can use only the front brake to stop even its tail doesn't go airborne.
However, the race bike guys when braking also downshifting at the same time, so when the rear tire is on the ground some amount of engine braking is applied which is not 100% stopping with your front brake. But this is only if you downshift along with braking. If you don't downshift and just depressed the clutch even using only front brake and the rear tire is on the ground 100% is done by the front brake.

For example the car's brake proportionate valve is set something like (I'm just guessing the percentage) 60/40% (front/rear) wheels. If you disconnect the rear wheels brake lines or made that valve to work 100/0% (front/rear) the car will stop 100% only with its front tires. It doesn't need to lift the rear tires in the air for that, but still the rear wheels are not braking at that point.

 

[UncleDave]

I did some Jason Pridmore schools at Pahrump, back in the day.

I recall helping instruct a couple of Oklahoma State Troopers, on high-speed riding on their patrol Hayabusa's at MMP years ago. The Keith Code school was there that day. I went out on my own 1st gen Hayabusa so they could see what it was capable of. It's funny, most people that have never ridden one, think that all they are good for is straight-line acceleration and top-speed riding.

On track, they feel like a bigger GSXR1000, with more power.

A picture from the track riding session.

View attachment 305285

The bikes when not prepped for track duty.

View attachment 305286

Super fun. A busa is a great platform for all kinds of riding.

 

[Bonz]

He is telling you that you can use 100% of your front brake (don't use the rear at all) even if the rear end is on the ground. Meaning that a heavier bike like cruisers can use only the front brake to stop even its tail doesn't go airborne.
However, the race bike guys when braking also downshifting at the same time, so when the rear tire is on the ground some amount of engine braking is applied which is not 100% stopping with your front brake. But this is only if you downshift along with braking. If you don't downshift and just depressed the clutch even using only front brake and the rear tire is on the ground 100% is done by the front brake.

For example the car's brake proportionate valve is set something like (I'm just guessing the percentage) 60/40% (front/rear) wheels. If you disconnect the rear wheels brake lines or made that valve to work 100/0% (front/rear) the car will stop 100% only with its front tires. It doesn't need to lift the rear tires in the air for that, but still the rear wheels are not braking at that point.

Keep in mind my question was based on 100% futility, not 100% braking, with the way the discussion was going. I know exactly what he (O2SE) meant.

Reality is we're all talking about 100% of available traction, as 100% of the front brake force would mean pulling the lever to the bar. Only an idiot would think that's not an accident waiting to happen.

Hey wait a minute, did I just read between the lines that 100% of available force versus braking up to the point of not exceeding 100% of available traction while the rear wheel is in the air are different things? Or has that been said multiple times in multiple ways already? I don't know, hard to keep up with you guys.

For Pete's sake, was it not clear with the way my post above was stated? The new internet age, reading between the lines, discerning intent and subtle humor is a lost cause apparently.

 

[lilspenny]

Good afternoon

Lately I been thinking get into motorcycle. Every one I talk to, they don’t own a motorcycle but only thing in their mind is accident, give me a bad vibe about riding. But those that own motorcycle they love it.

I was thinking take a motorcycle class at Harley Davison . And properly get something under 500cc or 600cc . And just driving around street for a while until I can get on the highway one early Sunday morning. I am very respect the law of the road and very responsibility person when it come to other safety or myself .

If you are tall, say over 5'11", it's easier to find a bike. I go to ride events just for fun. Surprise bikes have been a smaller Indian and a Tenere 700. Loved those two. Cruise control is a must have for me, and that makes things more difficult.

 

[wander2039]

I started out couple years on a 83 CV80 79cc which was virtually a 49cc. From there I used it for ammunition to convince my wife to sign up for the safety course at the community college. One of the best things I did. But it's also scary a few that passed that probably shouldn't of, one didn't though. I had a blast on the 250cc Rebel, got one of the highest scores in the final. All I ride now is a 150cc Kymco Like scooter since I mostly ride around town. My only advice/tips... get comfortable in leans, just assume no one see's you (saved me numerous times even in a orange scooter), I'd work on balance also (I had that down pat riding pedal bikes for years). Looking at getting a BMW touring in the next couple years. Not sure I'll ride the interstates around KC very much just doesn't like much fun.

 

[Hermann]

I started out couple years on a 83 CV80 79cc which was virtually a 49cc. From there I used it for ammunition to convince my wife to sign up for the safety course at the community college. One of the best things I did. But it's also scary a few that passed that probably shouldn't of, one didn't though. I had a blast on the 250cc Rebel, got one of the highest scores in the final. All I ride now is a 150cc Kymco Like scooter since I mostly ride around town. My only advice/tips... get comfortable in leans, just assume no one see's you (saved me numerous times even in a orange scooter), I'd work on balance also (I had that down pat riding pedal bikes for years). Looking at getting a BMW touring in the next couple years. Not sure I'll ride the interstates around KC very much just doesn't like much fun.

The interstates are not a fun around KC. The close ones to the Metro are always crowded. 30 miles away from downtown, they just turn into racetracks. I avoid if possible, even in my truck. I tried the 100 mile loop on I-435 on a early Saturday morning once. It was OK Still lots of folks not paying attention.

 

[grampi]

Definitely take the class and always dress for the crash, not the ride.

It's "dress for the slide, not just the ride"...

 

[grampi]

I think the suggestion of starting in the dirt is a good one. I did. This year was my 55th year of riding. Most of that was on the street. I've never been down on the street (knock on wood). The reason I'm still alive is because I grew up, and stopped riding like a hooligan, and I assume other drivers don't see me. Always have a plan B...oh, and ride as many back roads as possible...less or no traffic = a much safer ride...