First time learning how to ride motorcycle

[Ronsant]

That’s why there are books and physical classes to learn basic and advanced motorcycle skills. Once you are ready, track days teach more advanced braking, body position, and more.
I got into a loud argument with some folks at a bike run. The point of contention was counter steering. Guys had 20 years riding experience and claimed to never used counter steering. Ego is the biggest obstacle to learning and motorcycle riders (some) have HUGE egos.

 

[NOTEVIL81]

That’s why there are books and physical classes to learn basic and advanced motorcycle skills. Once you are ready, track days teach more advanced braking, body position, and more.
I got into a loud argument with some folks at a bike run. The point of contention was counter steering. Guys had 20 years riding experience and claimed to never used counter steering. Ego is the biggest obstacle to learning and motorcycle riders (some) have HUGE egos.

Absolutely great points. Countersteering and weight transfer on the pegs rolls the bike in the turns.

 

[Ronsant]

Absolutely great points. Countersteering and weight transfer on the pegs rolls the bike in the turns.

Try to explain countersteering to folks who have never read a book, taken a class, or done an instructional track day. BUT they have 20 or 30 years of riding and they think they are expert riders. Push right, go right, push left , go left. Nope, I just lean….

 

[spasm3]

Absolutely great points. Countersteering and weight transfer on the pegs rolls the bike in the turns.

Try to explain countersteering to folks who have never read a book, taken a class, or done an instructional track day. BUT they have 20 or 30 years of riding and they think they are expert riders. Push right, go right, push left , go left. Nope, I just lean….

I'm having trouble understanding how anyone could ride for any amount of time and not understand counterstearing, it's almost intuitive.

 

[KrisZ]

I'm having trouble understanding how anyone could ride for any amount of time and not understand counterstearing, it's almost intuitive.

I think it’s because some people do it so intuitively, they cannot comprehend counter steering once it’s actually explained to them.

But some simply think you need to muscle the bike into corners or lean hard with your body because that’s what racers do. And if you ride slow enough, you can get away with it. Many do for decades.

 

[Ronsant]

I think it’s because some people do it so intuitively, they cannot comprehend counter steering once it’s actually explained to them.

But some simply think you need to muscle the bike into corners or lean hard with your body because that’s what racers do. And if you ride slow enough, you can get away with it. Many do for decades.

This ^^^^^^^^^.

 

[AZjeff]

You can use lots of front brake if you know how.

 

[02SE]

You can use lots of front brake if you know how.

Yep, most sportbikes can achieve 100% of braking with the front brake. Of course the rider needs to have their braking skills up to snuff, to achieve that.

 

[KrisZ]

You can use lots of front brake if you know how.

Not only that you can, but you absolutely should. If you’re afraid of locking up, you must practice progressive braking and using only few fingers instead of the whole hand. If you’ve got ABS, then you just need to conquer your irrational fears, but still practice the above.
ABS systems are great, but can only do so much to save the situation.

 

[KrisZ]

Yep, most sportbikes can achieve 100% of braking with the front brake. Of course the rider needs to have their braking skills up to snuff, to achieve that.

Even heavy cruisers can approach 100%, probably even do 100%. But since they’re so heavy, the rear brake does a great job at stabilizing them. And that’s how it should be used.

 

[MetalSlug]

ok guys, got everything I need be legal to drive ( it was not easy, but I made it through ), now i am hunt for a honda rebel 300-500, I look around for a use one. I think I am right on the honda. I like the look of it, I like how it made by honda, which is brand I always trust.

my goal after I got the bike it, practice practice , I am live next to a park with very large parking lot, I will go there every day to drive, I wont be on the main road or highway for a while, i am talk about few month. I just want practice turning, shifting and braking. No rush.

 

[Bonz]

ok guys, got everything I need, now i am hunt for a honda rebel 300-500, I look around for a use one. I think I am right on the honda. I like the look of it, I like how it made by honda, which is brand I always trust.

Kawasaki Eliminator 500 may be worth swinging a leg over as a similar comparison to the Rebel 500. I've read the Honda has a "quirky" riding position as one comparison test said, with the rider in a scrunched up riding position. The Rebel is not terribly comfortable, again, from what I've read for doing anything but around town or local rides. Everything can become an acquired taste but thought I'd share that anyway.

 

[02SE]

Even heavy cruisers can approach 100%, probably even do 100%. But since they’re so heavy, the rear brake does a great job at stabilizing them. And that’s how it should be used.

I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could do a stoppie. If the bike has a strong enough front brake, usually the front tire loses traction and skids before the rear tire comes off the ground. At least my definition of 100% stopping power with the front brake, would be the rear tire off the ground with maximum braking. Maybe the braking setup on @NOTEVIL81's bike can achieve that. I know the FLHTCUI I had at one time, certainly couldn't.

 

[KrisZ]

I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could do a stoppie. If the bike has a strong enough front brake, usually the front tire loses traction and skids before the rear tire comes off the ground. At least my definition of 100% stopping power with the front brake, would be the rear tire off the ground with maximum braking. Maybe the braking setup on @NOTEVIL81's bike can achieve that. I know the FLHTCUI I had at one time, certainly couldn't.

Then you have a weird definition. That would be like saying a car doesn't use 100% of it's engine power unless in can keep burning tires until the third gear.

How a bike behaves under full braking power is simply a function of weight distribution and brake clamping forces, it has nothing to do with using 100% of the brakes or not.
If you can use the front brake effectively where adding the rear brake doesn't shorten the stopping distance, or locks up the wheels, you are using 100% of the braking that's available to you for the conditions and for your bike.

 

[02SE]

Then you have a weird definition. That would be like saying a car doesn't use 100% of it's engine power unless in can keep burning tires until the third gear.

How a bike behave under full braking power a simply function of weight distribution and brake clamping forces, it has nothing to do with using 100% of the brakes or not.
If you can use the front brake effectively where adding the rear brake doesn't shorten the stopping distance, you are using 100% of the braking that's available to you for the conditions and for your bike.

Sigh.

If the rear tire is still on the ground, you're not braking at 100%. At least in the case of sportbikes with grippy tires, and excellent brakes. Which is my point.

Yes, I can agree that any bike that is so heavy, long of wheelbase, and lacks sufficiently powerful front brakes and grippy tires to utilize them that it can't stoppie if you tried, would require adding rear braking to stop or slow down as quickly as possible.

I thought that was obvious when I said I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could stoppie. But hopefully typing that out will settle any perceived disparity.


Rather than going around and around, I'll just suggest that every rider learn good riding fundamentals, and then practice, practice, practice.

 

[KrisZ]

Well, you said this. Not sure how you think I misinterpreted your post.

At least my definition of 100% stopping power with the front brake, would be the rear tire off the ground with maximum braking.

 

[02SE]

Yes, in the context of a bike that can do that. Such as the type of bike in the video posted by @AZjeff. Or most sportbikes as I stated.

I also said that I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could do a stoppie. So I apparently incorrectly assumed that you would understand the full ramifications of that comment. But apparently it wasn't clear, so I spelled it out in my last post.

Hopefully this can now be laid to rest...

 

[Bonz]

A rider is utilizing at or under 100% of front braking capability when the rear tire lifts off the ground and the bike is still under "control". When the rider/bike surpasses 100%, the front tire skids and the front slides with the rear wheel off the ground.. Pretty clear to me.

It goes without saying, I can use the front brake and the rear brake to come to a stop, and not use 50% of the braking power. However I would pose the statement, that there is a point where some percent of the front and some percent of the rear could be more effective at stopping than the point where some percent of the front causes the rear tire to come off the ground. The rear tire coming off the ground doesn't mean you use the 100% of the front, it means your rear brake is 100% useless.

 

[KrisZ]

Even the rear tire lifting on sportbikes is not an indicator of 100% (for the conditions) braking. A skilled rider will control the rear wheel with his body position during braking. You can clearly see it done in MotoGP racing.

Some of you guys like to make stuff up on the fly.

 

[NOTEVIL81]

I've never ridden a heavy cruiser that could do a stoppie. If the bike has a strong enough front brake, usually the front tire loses traction and skids before the rear tire comes off the ground. At least my definition of 100% stopping power with the front brake, would be the rear tire off the ground with maximum braking. Maybe the braking setup on @NOTEVIL81's bike can achieve that. I know the FLHTCUI I had at one time, certainly couldn't.

That is a fair assessment from a sport bike rider. I have a fair amount of experience on the track of a b m w one thousand rr but no experience in racing. But like you're on admission , you've never ridden a cruiser. And that front end is mounted on a dyna. Not by definition a cruiser. Yes , the bike is close to 7 hundred pounds. A dyna no way in shape resembles an f.L.H. trust me with the proper compression.Dialed in on the front end while braking you can achieve close to ninety percent without front wheel lock up. $10000 in front end parts with ceramic rotors. The best of the best make it possible. Or no one would possibly invest in this. There is a reason in Harley racing. Ohlins, berringer, lyndall products exist. You want to increase your survival rate on the streets. Very simple open your wallet. There's a reason these products exist.