First Oil Change...Wait 10K Miles?

[Oldwolf]

I just bought a 2012 Prius C with a 1NZ-FXE engine. The first oil change is scheduled at 10k miles. I verified with the service manager that there is no point in changing the oil any earlier the first time. The Toyota manual does not recommend an early change. None of the guys over at Priuschat forums recommend an early change either. Numerous UOA’s have been done by Priuschat members that show the OEM oil is doing fine at the 10k mark. The oil used and specified is Toyota 0W20, which is synthetic and currently produced by Mobil.

While judging oil by how it looks is not a means to decide when to change it out, these Atkinson cycle 1NZ-XFE engines burn fuel very cleanly I think, my other Prius has the same model engine (but it is a 2005) and at 5k the oil is just taking on some color. At 10k it has turned a nice amber color.

So, I am leaning to keeping an eye on the oil and plan on a 10k oci right from the beginning. I remember the old days when I would dump the factory fill early thinking I was doing the right thing for my new engine. Now that I reflect back, I don’t know if I was really getting any benefit from that early change.

I have 400 miles on the engine now and it will be awhile until I rack up enough road time for an oil change. But you know how obsessive we BITOG members are! What would you do in my situation? Thanks.

 

[demarpaint]

This topic has been covered lots of times here. There are guys for and against it. I change the oil early to get any of the excess junk out from assembly, and break-in wear metals. The guys against it will tell you its a waste of time, money, and resources.

If it were my car the oil would be out early. JMO

 

[Dominic]

I'm with demarpaint on this. I tend to do (3) earlier oil changes until I get to 10K where I consider most engines to be ready for prime time. I do know the first oil can go a full 10K without issue, but I'd feel better splitting it up to 5k, 10k just to remove any insolubles the filter doesn't catch. Keep an eye on all the fluids too, and enjoy the little prius

 

[Oil Changer]

This is a hot topic that will never be agreed on. There is no mechanical reason to change the oil early. Changing the FF early is simply a feel-good thing.

Either way, it will be difficult (if not impossible) to prove that any "damage" will be done over the life-cycle of the engine.

While not a Prius, I did just change the FF on my CR-V yesterday at 7500 miles. I will mail the sample on Tuesday. Check the UOA sub-forum. I filled with Toyota's 0W-20 SM.

Your research proved that a 10k drain is acceptable. You might feel better if you change now. If so, do it.

 

[Eddie]

If it makes you sleep better and you can afford it, then change it out, using Toyota oil at 5,000 miles. Personally, I think it is just fine to follow what Toyota Engineers recommend. Ed

 

[stockrex]

Just follow severe change schedule

 

[2James1]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This topic has been covered lots of times here. There are guys for and against it. I change the oil early to get any of the excess junk out from assembly, and break-in wear metals. The guys against it will tell you its a waste of time, money, and resources.

If it were my car the oil would be out early. JMO


+1

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
This is a hot topic that will never be agreed on. There is no mechanical reason to change the oil early. ...
How bout the fact that the oil will be LOADED with 15 micon an smaller wear material (that the filter cant capture) the fact that most bearing clearances are .0005- .0010" diametrical which is smaller than these particles. At some stage you will be post wear-in and into excessive wear OUT. Also, these filters have dome end bypass which will allow all kinds of junk back into the engine. I say change out at 3000-5K 6 months max. The oil will be sheared very thin by the break in process also. Have fun

 

[cancov]

My first change in my '11 Corolla was performed at 1,500 miles and I described it as "glittery." Replaced with PYB, 5W20, until 5,000 miles on the odometer. Then I ran PU, 5W20, out to 10,000 and allowed Toyota to "Toyota Care" it with Toyota, 0W20. But as described above and as you can conclude from my post, I also am under the "change early" school of thought. I even changed the ATF at 10,000. I posted my results with pictures of the magnets.

 

[Oil Changer]

Fine and dandy. Now if Toyota (or any other manufacturer) thought the points you mentioned was a problem, especially one that would cost them money, they wouldn't recommend a 10k change.

An argument can be made that the particles not captured be the filter scuff metal surfaces giving the oil a better surface to cling to, hence increasing engine life and oil efficiency.

But this has all been discussed at length for years. This is a battle no one will win and no proof can be presented on either side of the argument.

 

[demarpaint]

I look it it this way, if you think the excess wear metals from break-in, and debris from the engine assembly process is harmless to your engine then by all means drop FF at the recommended interval. Otherwise dump it early, its that simple.

All the car mfg is concerned with is you making it through the warranty period.

 

[Oil Changer]

Some people make it sound like modern engines are assembled in a shed under filthy conditions where Scooter throws his beer cans and lunch trash in the block before putting the heads and intake on.

Countless UOA's don't show the wear OUT people mention. Countless millions follow manufacturer advice and motor happily along until they smash it or trade it in because they got bored.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Some people make it sound like modern engines are assembled in a shed under filthy conditions where Scooter throws his beer cans and lunch trash in the block before putting the heads and intake on.

Countless UOA's don't show the wear OUT people mention. Countless millions follow manufacturer advice and motor happily along until they smash it or trade it in because they got bored.



They aren't assembled in sheds under the conditions you mentioned, but they aren't cleaned perfectly, in a sterile environment either. UOA reports show elevated wear metals, etc. in new engines, so its there and a fact of life. For me a $20 oil change early in the life of a new engine is a good investment, for other people it isn't. Whatever makes you happy.

As a side note if you were to take a UOA report from a new engine and tell someone it was from their broken in engine with 50K miles on it, they'd probably get sick looking at the report. Why not get that junk ASAP? Some people don't actually trade in or wreck their vehicles and want them to last as long as possible. A $20 early OC might help squeeze more life out of their engine. JMO

 

[Oil Changer]

Quote:
Why not get that junk ASAP?


Well, Honda says this:

Q. Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?

A. Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.


American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions.

Quote:
A $20 early OC might help squeeze more life out of their engine.


Or it could be a receipe for disaster.

 

[demarpaint]

That's Honda's suggestion, the OP owns a Prius. I'd want the junk out early, you want to leave it in. Seems all these threads take the same route don't they?

OT- Check how many Honda owners dumped the FF early and had a disaster and let me know. There are plenty of members here that have done just that.

 

[Oil Changer]

Yep. Going in circles. That's what happens everytime this subject arises.

I used Honda as an example because that is the information I have handy. This should not matter as you state that ALL engines (IYO) should be drained early to get the "junk out".

Honda says follow the MM which is ~7500 depending on conditions. Toyota says go LONGER (10k). Proving each other's points.

BTW, the Astro van in my signature, I changed the oil at 50, 500, 1000, then at 3000 went to synthetic, did 3000 on synthetic until I came upon BITOG, now I go 10K plus or twice/year. Runs great.

 

[Oil Changer]

...and I never said leave it in. Following Toyota's recommendation, the OP will get rid of the car long before engine trouble develops as a result of an early change or following the manufacturer's recommendation.

I have also toured the Ford and Cummins engine assembly plants. I can walk to the Ford plant from my home and have a friend that works there. Both plants a very clean and use lots of robotics.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
...and I never said leave it in. Following Toyota's recommendation, the OP will get rid of the car long before engine trouble develops as a result of an early change or following the manufacturer's recommendation.

I have also toured the Ford and Cummins engine assembly plants. I can walk to the Ford plant from my home and have a friend that works there. Both plants a very clean and use lots of robotics.


I had an opportunity to discuss this topic with a very good friend who toured BMW's plant and had the opportunity to chat with their engine builders and designers. In fact he's friends with a few of them. Their advise was get the FF out ASAP. Remember cost of ownership and reduced maint is a selling point, not necessarily what's best for the vehicle.

 

[Oil Changer]

We can do this all day...

There is no evidence that leaving the FF in for the manufacturer recommended time period causes any detectable damage over the useful lifespan of the motor...

Please show me:

1. The tear-down wear numbers on a BMW engine after 100k that had the FF out early.

2. The tear-down wear numbers on a BMW engine after 100k that followed the manufacturer recommendation.

Then we'll compare numbers.

I'll wait...

 

[HTSS_TR]

I agree with Oil Changer, there is no proof that change FF early or leave FF in for the manufacturer recommended time period causes any detectable damage over the useful lifespan of the motor.

If change FF early makes you feel better than my any mean do it, if you like to leave FF in for the full OCI then do it. Personally I left FF in for full OCI in all my cars.