First Oil Change...Wait 10K Miles?

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Originally Posted By: Oldwolf
I just bought a 2012 Prius C with a 1NZ-FXE engine. The first oil change is scheduled at 10k miles.

Here is what I've decided from my recent personal experience...

In 2008, I purchased a Mazdaspeed3 and did my usual practice of changing the FF at 1250 miles. It runs great and has no problems. There has been a history of turbo problems with this car, but not mine.

In 2011, we bought a V6 Accord. It comes with 0W-20 and a Maintainence Minder. Both the manual and the dealer jumped up and down about not changing the oil early. So, I did what they said, which turned out to be 6300 miles. I did a UOA on this oil to see what was so great about it and what kind of shape it was in. The TBN was 2.0 (Blackstone), so it was pretty well used up. It had 253ppm Cu in it, among other things.

Can anyone here tell me with a straight face it wasn't due for an oil change? Can anyone here construct a logic whereby this engine would be worse off with clean oil?

Now, a month ago, we bought a Toyota Sienna V6. Comes with 0W-20 and manuals and dealer's telling me not to change the oil for 10,000 miles! I know, different engines, different uses, blah, blah, blah. But here's what I am going to do. I purchased Toyota brand oil, filters and drain plug gaskets. I will change the FF at no more than 4,000 miles myself. I will let that second fill go 6,000 miles to the first free Toyota service and take that. Then I will decide if it's ready to go the full 10,000.
 
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I always change out the oil early on all my new vehicles, I like to dump it at 500 miles and again at 1500 and again at 3K at which time it is switched over to synthetic, 5K oil changes from then on, anybody that runs FF to 10-12K for the first oil change is either clueless,cheap or lazy
lol.gif
 
Quote:
I'll take the Honda engineers comments treat them as Gospel

And which engineers might these be?
The same ones that recommend a 1K first OCI on the same model cars with the same engine sold in Europe?

If it really doesn't matter about wear particles roaming around inside the engine because it has a filter and anything small enough to get by the filter is harmless as some suggest then why is this?
Oil is minimum 3x the price there why would the maker burden the new car buyer with this expense?

People amaze me sometimes they buy insurance for everything and anything but ask them to spend a lousy 30 bucks on an oil change that even if its only remotely possible that it could contribute to longer engine life and they get their knickers in a knot.
When the "engineers" make mistakes that lead to sludge and engine failure these are the same folks that cry foul and call the same engineers idiots.
 
This new Prius we are semi discussing does have a EV miles readout. So I can tell how many miles the engine was running and how many miles the engine was off and the car in Electric Vehicle mode since the last OC.
 
Reference for what? I was there when my friend bought a new Toyota and i read the owners manual myself.
Another friend bought a new civic last summer and took it with her for its first inspection at 1K.

I may have a 2010 Euro owners manual here i will look around this week that shows the 1K first interval for a Honda.
 
Ha. There's the rub. It's a 29 month lease. I'll be the proud new owner of an Acura MDX long before the CR-V hits 150k. In 24 months (I got the CR-V in December) we can start this conversation again!

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
demarpaint,

What should I look for specifically when my results come back from the lab that will prove your opinion? What damage will the UOA highlight? What differences in engine performance, effeciency, reliability will I notice for leaving my FF in 7500 miles?


From your other post it seems I can't play Devils advocate only you can? Interesting. As far as your question is concerned, after 7,500 miles on a new engine I'd hope a UOA highlights nothing wrong with it. Only higher wear metals than on a broken in engine, which I'd prefer to remove early. After you log 150,000 miles lets talk.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Ha. There's the rub. It's a 29 month lease. I'll be the proud new owner of an Acura MDX long before the CR-V hits 150k. In 24 months (I got the CR-V in December) we can start this conversation again!

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
demarpaint,

What should I look for specifically when my results come back from the lab that will prove your opinion? What damage will the UOA highlight? What differences in engine performance, effeciency, reliability will I notice for leaving my FF in 7500 miles?


From your other post it seems I can't play Devils advocate only you can? Interesting. As far as your question is concerned, after 7,500 miles on a new engine I'd hope a UOA highlights nothing wrong with it. Only higher wear metals than on a broken in engine, which I'd prefer to remove early. After you log 150,000 miles lets talk.


Oh OK, then I'd do exactly what you're doing, skip the early OCI and not care.
smile.gif
A lease would be like a rental to me. LOL Why waste the cash on a UOA?
 
Indydriver:

Quote:
In 2008, I purchased a Mazdaspeed3 and did my usual practice of changing the FF at 1250 miles. It runs great and has no problems. There has been a history of turbo problems with this car, but not mine.


Okay.

Quote:
In 2011, we bought a V6 Accord. It comes with 0W-20 and a Maintainence Minder. Both the manual and the dealer jumped up and down about not changing the oil early. So, I did what they said, which turned out to be 6300 miles. I did a UOA on this oil to see what was so great about it and what kind of shape it was in. The TBN was 2.0 (Blackstone), so it was pretty well used up. It had 253ppm Cu in it, among other things.


Okay. So what oil-related engine problems have you experienced so far? Does it "run great"?

Quote:
Can anyone here tell me with a straight face it wasn't due for an oil change? Can anyone here construct a logic whereby this engine would be worse off with clean oil?


No and no. So what oil-related engine problems are you experiencing?
 
Should you or shouldn't you?
I think that we can all agree that most break-in happens in the first thousand or so miles of operation, by which time the rings have either seated or they won't.
I think that we can all agree that a UOA of FF oil will show very high metals levels.
I think that we can also all agree that the presence of these metals in the used oil is the result of their being particles too small for the oil filter to reliably trap.
I personally like to dump FF oil at about 1K, then do a 3K run and then extend drains to the 5-6K I prefer.
Leaving a soup of abrasive metal particles in the engine for the length of a regular oil change strikes me as false economy.
Still, we can probably also all agree that the engine will likely run 200K+ either way.
 
I do care. I might buy it off and give it to a grandchild. I'm doing UOA's because:

a. Trying to give back to BITOG.
b. I find it interesting.
c. Another form of maintenance history/documentation.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Ha. There's the rub. It's a 29 month lease. I'll be the proud new owner of an Acura MDX long before the CR-V hits 150k. In 24 months (I got the CR-V in December) we can start this conversation again!

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
demarpaint,

What should I look for specifically when my results come back from the lab that will prove your opinion? What damage will the UOA highlight? What differences in engine performance, effeciency, reliability will I notice for leaving my FF in 7500 miles?


From your other post it seems I can't play Devils advocate only you can? Interesting. As far as your question is concerned, after 7,500 miles on a new engine I'd hope a UOA highlights nothing wrong with it. Only higher wear metals than on a broken in engine, which I'd prefer to remove early. After you log 150,000 miles lets talk.


Oh OK, then I'd do exactly what you're doing, skip the early OCI and not care.
smile.gif
A lease would be like a rental to me. LOL Why waste the cash on a UOA?
 
Fwiw, I first change after 1000-1500 miles on new engines. I've not had any issues with the vehicles on which I've done this (all VWs except for my current Ford fiesta). At the same time I've owned some second hand cars with engines with stuck rings or sludge problems. Would they have been better off with earlier changes, which I assume none of them got...maybe? Its anyone's guess without a truckload of data from different cars on specific OCI programs.

The only used car I've had with maintenance records was a 1.8T GTI that got dealer changes with castrol GTX 5w30 every 5-7k miles (and a couple at 8 or 9k) for 110k miles and it had major oil pressure issues because of sludge. It was fine and showed normal UOAs until I got rid of it at 180k miles after 3 auto rx heavy sludge treatments with Delvac 15w40 and a steady diet of Rotella T 5w40 after that though. I'd imagine a diet of synthetics and an early change when new would have avoided all that, but it'd be hard to prove.

--Matt
 
I'll toss this out there, hoping for an honest answer.

Lets say you are shopping used cars, you find two identical vehicles you like, the same price, miles condition, everything. Car 1. FF dumped at 1000 miles and oil changed every 5K thereafter. Car 2. FF left in for 7,500 miles oil changed every 7,500 miles thereafter as per the OM. Which would you buy?
 
Well since everything is the same, I would conclude that the OCI had no effect on the engine so I'd buy the one with the color I liked. If both cars are the same color, I'd choose the one that had the non-smoker. Much further than that, I'd have to flip a coin.

Either way it seems the previous owners of both cars were above average in the maintenance of their vehicles. I admire the guy that followed the direction set forth in the manual by the manufacturer as well as the guy who spent extra money and deviated from the guidelines and changed the oil even though it wasn't necessary.

What about the other fluids? Trans, brakes, PS?

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'll toss this out there, hoping for an honest answer.

Lets say you are shopping used cars, you find two identical vehicles you like, the same price, miles condition, everything. Car 1. FF dumped at 1000 miles and oil changed every 5K thereafter. Car 2. FF left in for 7,500 miles oil changed every 7,500 miles thereafter as per the OM. Which would you buy?
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'll toss this out there, hoping for an honest answer.

Lets say you are shopping used cars, you find two identical vehicles you like, the same price, miles condition, everything. Car 1. FF dumped at 1000 miles and oil changed every 5K thereafter. Car 2. FF left in for 7,500 miles oil changed every 7,500 miles thereafter as per the OM. Which would you buy?


All else being equal, which ever one had a color I preferred. If they were both the same color the the one that followed the OM.
 
If it were me, the car that had beeen maintained at a level beyond the OM would be my choice.
If an owner is careful about OCIs, he is very likely careful about everything else, including those items that really matter.
Additionally, the original owner was almost certainly doing his own maintenance, rather than subjecting his car to the lowest paid tech in a dealer service deapartment.
This is a major plus to me.
 
Originally Posted By: R2d2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'll toss this out there, hoping for an honest answer.

Lets say you are shopping used cars, you find two identical vehicles you like, the same price, miles condition, everything. Car 1. FF dumped at 1000 miles and oil changed every 5K thereafter. Car 2. FF left in for 7,500 miles oil changed every 7,500 miles thereafter as per the OM. Which would you buy?


All else being equal, which ever one had a color I preferred. If they were both the same color the the one that followed the OM.


Same here.

As long as the car was maintained according to manufacturer directions whichever color I liked better.
 
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