First Change Mi. for Manual Trans?

OiledMustangGT · Jun 29, 2004

I have a Tremec(sp?) 5 spd 3650 tranny. It has about 3,800 city miles on it so far...and admittedly... I have ground the gears a couple times

. When should I frist change it?

It calls for regular ATF.. but I have heard of good reviews using GM syncromesh in this particular tranny.

jorton · Jun 29, 2004

Every 75,000 miles for conventional oil.
130,000 miles for synthetic oil.
Or, if you have to drive through a lot of high water, change it after the rainy season passes.
Joe

Bror Jace · Jun 29, 2004

OiledMustangGT, I know I first dump the oil out of my manual trannies around the 10,000-12,000 mile mark to get rid of the break-in debris.

Then I usually go to a 30,000-40,000 mile interval after that.

You might want to try one of the synchromesh fluids ... but be prepared to dump it in a hurry if shift quality (feel, noise, etc ...) deteriorates.

For something which asks for ATF, Red Line MTL might be a good alternative. It is very thin (70W80) and the additive package (lots of boron) is probably better for combatting wear than any ATF.

I think Dave Granquist at Red Line recommends one of their ATFs for trannies caling for ATFs, however.

My beef with a lot of the synchromesh fluids on the market is that they refuse to show a weight on the bottle. They are going strictly by part number ... and that really ****** me off!

--- Bror Jace

Whimsey · Jun 29, 2004

I have Ford's poor excuse for a manual tranny in my 2002 F-150. It's a Mazda M5OD, I believe. It uses Mercon rated ATF fluid. It shifted very badly in the winter and liked to grind too often when shifting, especially when pulling out into traffic that required rapid speed

. The tranny feels sloppy/loose inside. I drained the factory Mercon at 13,000 miles and used Schaeffers #204S synthetic blend DexronIII/Mercon ATF. It helped a lot. It shifts like a dream in the winter now and it shifts better than with the factory Mercon. But it still grinds occasionally and still sounds and feels "loose", though not as bad as before. It's just a crappy tranny I guess. But I'm afraid to use a thicker gear oil for fear of "starving" the gears of lubrication or affecting metal wear. Maybe a 50/50 mixture of Redline MTL and ATF would work? I don't want to be changing the fluid every season though.

Whimsey

TallPaul · Jun 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
For something which asks for ATF, Red Line MTL might be a good alternative. It is very thin (70W80) and the additive package (lots of boron) is probably better for combatting wear than any ATF.

I think Dave Granquist at Red Line recommends one of their ATFs for trannies caling for ATFs, however.

Their MTL brochure says to use their D4 ATF in manual trannies calling for ATF. I called Dave a couple times trying to see if he would go with the MTL in my F150 M5OD tranny, but he was pretty set on D4. D4 is 7.5 cSt @100C (which I believe is close to the Ford spec fluid); whereas the MTL is 10.6 cSt. Gear Oil (Redline MT-90) is 15.6 cSt. Dave didn't say I couldn't run the MTL, but that it would be stiffer shifting in winter. My shifting problems are mostly when it is not warmed up (clashes easy), but downshifts into first are always a pain (warm or cold). So I opted for the thinner D4 last time I refilled my tranny. Performance seems comparable to the M1 ATF I had been running, possibly a bit better.

Bror Jace · Jun 30, 2004

" ... but downshifts into first are always a pain (warm or cold)."

I have a simple solution:

Never downshift into first unless you are at a complete stop. If you are rolling at all, use 2nd gear.

--- Bror Jace

MolaKule · Jun 30, 2004

Synchromesh fluids average about 9.3 cSt.

Redline MTL is 10 cSt,

Redline D4 is 7.5 cSt

Redline racing Type-F is 10 cSt.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000622

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000595

TallPaul · Jul 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Never downshift into first unless you are at a complete stop. If you are rolling at all, use 2nd gear.

I used to have to do that in '75 with my non-syncro first gear '63 Chevy Biscayne.

What I do in the pickup is rev it a bit so the speed equalizes, hold the lever against first and at the right moment is slips in with no problem. Just a problem coordinating and waiting. But, yeah, I can pretty much use 2nd. Can even start out in 2nd if I don't mind slipping the clutch a bit.

MolaKule tried to steer me to the MTL, but I chickened out.

OiledMustangGT · Jul 1, 2004

I think I read something on this forum advising AGAINST redline fluids in the Tremec Trannies b/c it made some carbon fiber rings or something in the tranny brittle.. ill try to find the link

OiledMustangGT · Jul 1, 2004

"One thing you need to know is that Red Line D4 ATF (Mercon V) is not good for your T-3650 tranny. The synchro rings are carbon fiber, and RL makes these rings brittle. I know it's wierd, but a lot of teh Mustang folks on www.mustangworld.com are using GM Synchromesh manual transmission fluid in their T-3650 trannys. GM Synchromesh takes the characteristic 1-2 shift grind out of the picture completely. Don't use Red Line in the T-3650 tranny."

RedWolf4000 · Jul 4, 2004

I would like to add that i have never changed my manual tranny fluid in ANY of my vehicles EVER and i have a 5-speed with 419,000 miles on it. Original fluid.

Tremo · Jul 5, 2004

Redline MTL is an excellent oil, but it is quite a bit thicker than ATF. If your manual tranny calls for ATF, they do so for a reason, they want you to use a thinner oil. In that case, MTL is not the answer.

If your manual trans wants ATF, there are several excellent solutions. M1 synthetic ATF is one. Ditto for Royal Purple Synchromax, which is designed specifically for manual boxes that call for ATF. It's thin like ATF and uses group 4 base oils. RP also makes a synthetic ATF. Redline makes a synthetic ATF that is also excellent. If the synthetics are too pricey for you, then any good (Castrol, Pennzoil, etc...) Dexron 3 type ATF will work just fine.

MikeR · Jul 7, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Whimsey:
I have Ford's poor excuse for a manual tranny in my 2002 F-150. It's a Mazda M5OD, I believe. It uses Mercon rated ATF fluid. It shifted very badly in the winter and liked to grind too often when shifting, especially when pulling out into traffic that required rapid speed

. The tranny feels sloppy/loose inside. I drained the factory Mercon at 13,000 miles and used Schaeffers #204S synthetic blend DexronIII/Mercon ATF. It helped a lot. It shifts like a dream in the winter now and it shifts better than with the factory Mercon. But it still grinds occasionally and still sounds and feels "loose", though not as bad as before. It's just a crappy tranny I guess. But I'm afraid to use a thicker gear oil for fear of "starving" the gears of lubrication or affecting metal wear. Maybe a 50/50 mixture of Redline MTL and ATF would work? I don't want to be changing the fluid every season though.

Whimsey

I have the same fine (

) transmission in my Ranger. I was getting a terrible grind on the 3-4 shift, especially when I shifted over 50 MPH. Finally got so bad that I would just double-clutch between 3 and 4.

Replaced the Jiffy-Lube fluid with Mobil 1 ATF. At first the problem got a little worse. Then, over the course of about 1500 miles, the grinding got less and less until it doesn't even grind anymore.

These crappy transmissions are apparently very sensitive to type and quality of fluid.

MR

JustinH · Jul 7, 2004

I had a tbird supercoupe with a m5r2 mazda manual tranny. We put mobil1 atf and friction modifier in it (per factory manual) and it shifted fine. All the syncros were good and it was as good as it could be. That transmission never had a real slick feeling to it, it shifted like a dump truck no matter what you did to it.

1 FMF · Jul 7, 2004

your manual tranny fluid temps will never hit 100C (212F). I have the T56 in an 02 camaro, running MTL, with a temp sender in the drain hole. On a 6 hour trip to upstate NY, fluid temp topped out at 173F -- 6th gear @ 1700 rpm around 70mph at 80+ F outside temps. Most of the time, it runs around 100-130F. I seriously doubt you will have any issues with "starving the gears" with any oil. Shift quality has very little to do with viscosity, and has to do with frictional characteristics of the fluid. There is a good writeup on synchromesh, and redline fluids (albeit on the web) at LS2.com under the tranny section. And it debunks the myth of the synthetic fluid vs. synchro ring material. In short, go with either Redline D4atf, MTL, or synchromesh. I've tried RP synchromax and had some synchro grinds going into 3rd although it was great in the winter.

Go by the 40C (104F) viscosity specs:

code:

D4ATF = 33.5

MTL = 50.8

MT90 = 89.2

Pennzoil (GM) Synchromesh = 41.6

Royal Purple Synchromax = 35.3

Royal Purple MaxATF = 32.4

Redline Hi-temp ATF = 53.9

AMSoil ATF = 36

Pennzoil Dex3 ATF = 32.3

Whimsey · Jul 8, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JustinH:
That transmission never had a real slick feeling to it, it shifted like a dump truck no matter what you did to it.

That's funny, I use to drive a new small 1971 Dodge dump truck with a 4 speed manual and it shifted a heck of a lot smoother and with less grinding than my 2002 Ford F-150 with the 5 speed manual Mazda tranny

. The kicker is she will shift decently for a while then grind out of the blue when shifting. Especially 1st to 2nd shifts and sometimes 2nd to 3rd shifts. I can put 100 miles on and in the same trip and then all of a sudden it will start grinding, but not consistantly

. It seems that in the hotter weather and if you drive the truck for a while it's more prone to begin grinding. It almost seems that the ATF thins out when it gets hot. However in the winter it shifts like a dream with the Schaeffers #204S ATF. But as I said before it's much improved over the factory Mercon. Maybe I should look at adding the Ford friction modifier to the ATF?

Whimsey

First Change Mi. for Manual Trans?

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