Hybrids have largely been also rans and I don't understand why. They should have been kings of the road for several decades before a big push for all electric came to fruition. All EV at this point is cart before the horse.
Filling a gas-powered vehicle can still be cheaper than charging an electric one
- Thread starter GON
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What a dumb article.
But not surprising, given the news outlet.
It basically states that if you choose the absolute most expensive way to charge an EV then it's more expensive than an economical fill up of a hybrid.
Technically correct, but completely counter to demonstrated driver behavior in all but extreme circumstances.
Maybe a fair and balanced comparison would include something similar to several replies already stated in this thread with .02-.03 cents/kwh charge rates. Likely too much to ask for from the authors though.
But not surprising, given the news outlet.
It basically states that if you choose the absolute most expensive way to charge an EV then it's more expensive than an economical fill up of a hybrid.
Technically correct, but completely counter to demonstrated driver behavior in all but extreme circumstances.
Maybe a fair and balanced comparison would include something similar to several replies already stated in this thread with .02-.03 cents/kwh charge rates. Likely too much to ask for from the authors though.
The AC to DC conversion is pretty efficient, between 4% and 9% losses. However, that's not the entire story. There are charging and discharging losses, heat losses, cooling losses and even a static 0.3% per hour loss.
In the end, a well setup home charge setup with a dedicated electric meter reveals some interesting facts. People are purchasing considerably more electrical power than they think, and when doing the math, the cost-per-mile is not as good as many claim. This shows up, front-and-center when using fast chargers on the road with their 40+c per Kwh charges.
One model 3 user tracked his home charge for a year: I spent 3285 KWh in charge, while only 2688 KWh was delivered.
Total loss is not 5% or 7%, but a much more righteous 18-20%. Worse as temperature decreases.
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Use a dedicated meter from the power company, and recalculate your electricity purchased per mile traveled after 1 year. The taxes, fees, charges, and other assessments add to the cost of electrical power. The losses will be about 20% in total, power purchased to power out of the battery in good weather, and worse in winter.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Tesla supercharging is still pretty affordable.
It’s so odd when people live in apartments and then buy electric cars and wait for an hour to charge at public chargers all the time.
I charged at home for pennies on the dollar with my Tesla.
It’s so odd when people live in apartments and then buy electric cars and wait for an hour to charge at public chargers all the time.
I charged at home for pennies on the dollar with my Tesla.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
You can already get very small solar panels, the problem is that the density of panels is limited, so you can only harvest so many watts per meter squared or per square foot. On top of that, as you alluded to, the further north you go, the less solar exposure you get. This is a 44MW commercial solar farm with trackers here in Ontario:
Rooftop is ~12% or less.
Stop drinking the Fox Kool-Aid. They may even tell you that you have a stolen car.
Even with my Prius Prime plug-in hybrid that gets 75 mpg on gas and 5.6 miles per kWh on electricity, it's 6.7¢ per mile with gas and 4.5¢ per mile with electricity; therefore, you pay 50% more with gas. 90% of cars don't even get half that gas mileage, and the drivers end up paying twice or more for fuel with gas! On top of that, electric cars are faster, more responsive, quieter, and cleaner, and there is no oil change or obsessing with oil.
Of course, you need to be able to charge at home overnight with the current technology. If you can't, electric cars are presently not for you. They will introduce true fast-charging in the next decade with solid-state batteries.
That was a fair and factual article by Fox. It is true that some fast chargers cost a lot more per kwh than some other sources. This would effect people that would like to take their vehicles outside of a 150 mile radius (much less in winter sometimes) of their home or work charging which will be a requirement for people if the ICE vehicle is to be replaced by EV.
Stop with the "Fox Kool-aid" balking nonsense, just makes you sound like a fool.
Of course, it was not fair and factual. It is comparing a muscle car to a small hybrid crossover and, on top of that, looking for the highest-cost EV-charging station you can find. Even the Tesla Model 3, a really fast car, gets 50% more electricity mileage than the Ford Mustang Mach-E. This is how news become fake news.
The truth is that, at current prices, EVs cost 1/3 of typical regular cars to fuel.
All have a 10-year/150,000-mile battery warranty if sold in California. That corresponds to a battery life of roughly 800 full charge/discharge cycles. Therefore, they need to design the batteries accordingly to comfortably last at least that long and probably about 50% more for most people:
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/california-vehicle-and-emissions-warranty-periods
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Oh, the kickback! It's just information, and like all info, the reader takes what is useful and discards the rest. I had to go back and read the article after seeing the kickback. I can see the error in the article because they used the on road recharge price vs. the home price. Energy charges vary from state to state so the cost varies from state. Use, whatever, energy source you like, but, do not make low income people suffer by ,artificially, reducing the U.S. supply and preventing our ability to pipe Canadian oil into the U.S. Jacking the price of gas up, hurting poor American drivers, hurts all Americans.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Interesting that they only list PZEV not ZEV, does that apply to ZEV as well?
Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
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Didn't VW offer 4 year unlimited charging on their ev's
I looked into it but nothing close here. Like 90 minutes away
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Audi has free unlimited charging at their dealerships.
When people estimate the cost of electricity, how many are using the marginal rate, versus the base rate?
The marginal rate is what you will actually pay, and is commonly much higher.
Of course it may also be lower, given rebates, or areas where the cost of electricity varies by time of day.
But in any case, it's not the base rate.
The marginal rate is what you will actually pay, and is commonly much higher.
Of course it may also be lower, given rebates, or areas where the cost of electricity varies by time of day.
But in any case, it's not the base rate.
Good question. I think not, but they want to have the same warranty for ZEV as well. Battery manufactures definitely aim for more than 80% capacity retention in 800 full cycles, which is about 150,000 miles for a typical configuration.
Fast-charging significantly decreases the battery cycle life with the existing lithium-ion cell technology, and that needs to be taken into consideration when designing and selling batteries and EVs so that they still last through the warranty if occasionally fast-charged.
In fact, now that I think about it, fast-charging is probably the reason why the ZEVs have shorter battery warranties than the PZEVs and why California is fighting with the OEMs about it.
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Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
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Look at the gasoline rate of increase just over the past week! My accountant said if I filled up on Monday and sold the car on Friday, I would have to pay capital gains on the gasoline in the tank!! (ha ha)
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
It is a legitimate action to question and verify, validate, and accredit the REAL LIFE cost of fueling electric vehicles. Electric may be free for some via solar, etc. I sense that free solar has limitations, and likely not readily available to the masses.
I speculate the only way to increase on-demand, predictable electrical generation in the USA over the next two decades on a macro level is by fossil fuels. Nuclear is likely the answer, but the USA is decades away if it wants to build additional nuclear plants.
An increase is fossil fuel costs will result in a increase in on-demand electrical costs for most Americans. The increase may not be immediately passed on to consumers because of regulations, but in the end the increase of fossil fuel costs will hit the pockets of the vast majority of consumers purchasing on demand electricity.
I speculate the only way to increase on-demand, predictable electrical generation in the USA over the next two decades on a macro level is by fossil fuels. Nuclear is likely the answer, but the USA is decades away if it wants to build additional nuclear plants.
An increase is fossil fuel costs will result in a increase in on-demand electrical costs for most Americans. The increase may not be immediately passed on to consumers because of regulations, but in the end the increase of fossil fuel costs will hit the pockets of the vast majority of consumers purchasing on demand electricity.
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