Federal EV tax credit set to end completely September 30th

[SeaJay]

Let the open market decide which cars will be manufactured and purchased. The only fair way to all.

 

[John105]

Let the open market decide which cars will be manufactured and purchased. The only fair way to all.

Yes the credit is to shape behavior. I’m sure we can all be influenced, but this just isn’t one where I would respond. Up it to $15,000, still not going to spend a major amount on something I don’t want nor like. Let’s be honest 5 years ago there was a cool factor and that’s gone. So if people are to be steered towards EVs need to go 10 or even 20k. But as you say, that’s not fair. Why not give rebates to 8 cyl gas and above? We could use that to offset fuel. Because that wouldn’t be fair and we 8 cyl drivers would never expect a handout.

 

[Torrid]

Yes the credit is to shape behavior. I’m sure we can all be influenced, but this just isn’t one where I would respond. Up it to $15,000, still not going to spend a major amount on something I don’t want nor like. Let’s be honest 5 years ago there was a cool factor and that’s gone. So if people are to be steered towards EVs need to go 10 or even 20k. But as you say, that’s not fair. Why not give rebates to 8 cyl gas and above? We could use that to offset fuel. Because that wouldn’t be fair and we 8 cyl drivers would never expect a handout.

Fair. Hilarious. Honestly the push to get the idea of EVs out there wasn't doing it on its own. It's not a matter of good idea or bad idea, no one knew how they worked. I didn't a credit on the first one. It didn't stop me. I bought two since. I don't want a dirty, expensive ICE vehicle. There's a lot of negative opinion with little fact involved in EV hate. Knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd buy anything else. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Your fuel is already offset. It's still more expensive than electricity. That's on you to keep buying V8s then. You still get a gas subsidy while the EV credit dies. Tell me how that's fair? Neither should exist. Why should a gasoline refining facility get tax breaks to lower gas prices when all they do is price fix to begin with? Cut it. Let the market decide.

 

[Mechanician]

Yes the credit is to shape behavior. I’m sure we can all be influenced, but this just isn’t one where I would respond. Up it to $15,000, still not going to spend a major amount on something I don’t want nor like. Let’s be honest 5 years ago there was a cool factor and that’s gone. So if people are to be steered towards EVs need to go 10 or even 20k. But as you say, that’s not fair. Why not give rebates to 8 cyl gas and above? We could use that to offset fuel. Because that wouldn’t be fair and we 8 cyl drivers would never expect a handout.

You're right, Tesla's "cool factor" has definitely left the building.

 

[Torrid]

You're right, Tesla's "cool factor" has definitely left the building.

Now they're just solid cars that happen to make some people angry.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You're right, Tesla's "cool factor" has definitely left the building.

Well, somebody's buying them, right? A lotta somebodies. I'm on my 2nd Tesla Model 3; there is no other car I would even consider. The M3P is that good. Now, I am not interested in any electric PU.

And I think it's very cool... I could care less what others think; they can buy whatever they like.
Tesla is a great American car company; to me that's cool.

 

[alarmguy]

….

Your fuel is already offset. It's still more expensive than electricity. That's on you to keep buying V8s then. You still get a gas subsidy while the EV credit dies. Tell me how that's fair? Neither should exist. Why should a gasoline refining facility get tax breaks to lower gas prices when all they do is price fix to begin with? Cut it. Let the market decide.

The problem with forums is you would have to supply the facts for the statement and I don’t think you can.

Furthermore, you’re comparing the cost of fuel with purchasing a vehicle.
You mentioned getting a tax break for purchasing an electric vehicle and no tax break for someone purchasing a gasoline vehicle but then you throw that the gasoline is subsidized
I think you will agree this is far far far and away nothing scientific in your statement

If you want to compare fuels, that’s a whole other story and then start from the power plant and the fuel that the power plant gets along with the transmission system to your house and what subsidies are evolved and then compare it to the gasoline and the outrageous taxes placed on refineries and sorry it just doesn’t hold water.

You’re talking apples and oranges
On top of that, your electric vehicle is not paying federal excise taxes for the roadways. You would need a scientific breakdown from the fuel for the power plant to your house and what subsidies you’re getting and the fact that you don’t pay any federal tax for the federal highways and bridges.

But it all doesn’t matter the playing field was just made fair. If you buy an American vehicle of any type, you could deduct the interest from your tax return.

Other than that, you cannot go, throwing in the fuel subsidies for one vehicle and excluding it from the other
Because much of the subsidy stuff is a bunch of hogwash to be Frank

 

[Torrid]

The problem with forums is you would have to supply the facts for the statement and I don’t think you can.

Furthermore, you’re comparing the cost of fuel with purchasing a vehicle.
You mentioned getting a tax break for purchasing an electric vehicle and no tax break for someone purchasing a gasoline vehicle but then you throw that the gasoline is subsidized
I think you will agree this is far far far and away nothing scientific in your statement

If you want to compare fuels, that’s a whole Nother story and then start from the power plant and the fuel that the power plant gets along with the transmission system to your house and what subsidies are evolved and then compare it to the gasoline and the outrageous taxes placed on refineries and sorry it just doesn’t hold water But even if it does what you posted here is irrelevant

That's the other end of the problem. The implementation is so different it's nearly impossible to compare the impact. I just want to see these people getting so mad about the credit to actually react to the fact that gasoline refiners are being heavily subsidized to their benefit and it's a self interest issue to be mad about the tax credit, but not the gasoline subsidy.

I don't benefit from the gasoline subsidy on a daily basis, so I should throw a temper tantrum over it like the whiney anti EV crowd is in this thread.

Supply the facts? Do you want me to post the tax subsidies that gasoline refiners receive specifically to subsidize the price of gasoline? The conservative estimates are $300-$400 billion a year. The extreme estimates are $1T+. I think the later one is exactly that, extreme. The information is widely available online.

*edit* Since we're editing things and changing our posts I now feel the need to point out what your original post said "But even if it does what you posted here is irrelevant" is exactly the issue at hand. If you just want to be disrespectful because you'd like to dismiss the actual issue at hand by calling it irrelevant instead of actually looking up the facts that are widely available and we've known for a very long time, then I can't take any part of the post seriously. You're better than that.

I thought the goal was to save money for the Federal government. Wasn't that the point of DOGE?
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-reduce-fossil-fuel-subsidies-january-2024

 

[alarmguy]

That's the other end of the problem. The implementation is so different it's nearly impossible to compare the impact. I just want to see these people getting so mad about the credit to actually react to the fact that gasoline refiners are being heavily subsidized to their benefit and it's a self interest issue to be mad about the tax credit, but not the gasoline subsidy.

I don't benefit from the gasoline subsidy on a daily basis, so I should throw a temper tantrum over it like the whiney anti EV crowd is in this thread.

Supply the facts? Do you want me to post the tax subsidies that gasoline refiners receive specifically to subsidize the price of gasoline? The conservative estimates are $300-$400 billion a year. The extreme estimates are $1T+. I think the later one is exactly that, extreme. The information is widely available online.

You can’t do that because every state is different
By the way, electric vehicle owners are getting a free ride in paying federal Highway taxes

You were supposed to be charged in the new budget $250 a year
However, it was killed in the budget reconciliation
You can bet one day it will return it will have to
Electric vehicles cannot be given a free ride, maintaining the roads and bridges in this country
Also, hybrid vehicles were gonna be charged $125 a year. Those two items were removed from the budget.

I’m not gonna get into a debate on gasoline subsidies because it’s all conjecture as well as as the fuel that your electric vehicle charges up with

It’s all irrelevant
Apples to apples, the tax credit gone for electric vehicles 100% fair finally
Still not fair is they’re not paying their share of Federal Highway funds

 

[Torrid]

You can’t do that because every state is different
By the way, electric vehicle owners are getting a free ride in paying federal Highway taxes

You were supposed to be charged in the new budget $250 a year
However, it was killed in the budget reconciliation
You can bet one day it will return it will have to
Electric vehicles cannot be given a free ride, maintaining the roads and bridges in this country
Also, hybrid vehicles were gonna be charged $125 a year. Those two items were removed from the budget.

I’m not gonna get into a debate on gasoline subsidies because it’s all conjecture as well as as the fuel that your electric vehicle charges up with

It’s all irrelevant
Apples to apples, the tax credit gone for electric vehicles 100% fair finally
Still not fair is they’re not paying their share of Federal Highway funds

Federal highway taxes? The states are already punitively taking that share. The Federal government should take that share from the states then. If they actually went after it as they want to at the Federal level I'd see $450 in fees between the state and the Federal level and both are blown out of proportion by 200%+ to hit that level. Federal wants $250. The state takes $200 as is and at $200 its already twice what the total fee should be between both fees. It's all anti EV anger resulting in punitive damage.

 

[Torrid]

By the way this is per car. I should receive $900 a year in road tax charges for two cars to cover my fair share? That’s enough to cover 8 cars. @alarmguy Figure out your tax charge on gasoline and tell me what that costs your for your Equinox for 12,000 miles for your average fuel economy.

 

[wag123]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the system of buying and selling carbon offset credits goes away as well. Selling carbon offset credits is how Tesla has been making almost all of their profit. The current administration is aggressively anti-green. My advice to anyone holding Tesla stock would be... time to sell.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Interesting, I see what you're getting at. However, the end cost for me is what it is, and thankfully it's pretty cheap in my location. We have the local co-op, people to the east of us are in the competition zone where you can pick your provider. Oddly enough we pay less than most of them that I've talked to.

My "availability fee" here is $17.23 and $0.113870/kWh. Is a bit more at the new house where I'm not too happy at the grossly simplified utility invoice which takes an 8.5"x11" sheet to say, "You used X kWh and owe us $Y". Doesn't specify cost per kWh (which varies with TVA's "fuel surcharge"), or the availability fee. Does list taxes but nothing about how the taxes are calculated.

 

[Torrid]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the system of buying and selling carbon offset credits goes away as well. Selling carbon offset credits is how Tesla has been making almost all of their profit. The current administration is aggressively anti-green. My advice to anyone holding Tesla stock would be... time to sell.

That's gone with this tax credit expiration as well. They've changed how CAFE is being calculated. The penalties for not meeting the minimums have been greatly reduced and it's cheaper to pay the penalty than it is to pay for credits, effectively cancelling the program.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not, but the literal reading of your words is the correct one. Kind of like the remote shut-offs that were found in a ton of Chinese sourced industrial solar panels. We are handing over our future.

Tell me more about the "remote shut-offs that were found in a ton of Chinese sourced industrial solar panels" as this is the first I have heard of this. And never knew there was any network connection or smarts in the solar panel.

I do know about all the holes being found in Chinese sourced solar panel inverters. Made Tesla Powerwalls an easy choice for me.

 

[GrumpyCat]

1. EV owners will pay an additional $250 annual fee for the loss in Federal Road taxes (eliminated)

I have been paying $200/year "EV fee" to Alabama for many years. Up to $203 in 2023 and increases $3 every 4 years. This is the gas tax equivalent of 21,000 miles at 30 MPG. The EV owner is getting soaked.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the system of buying and selling carbon offset credits goes away as well. Selling carbon offset credits is how Tesla has been making almost all of their profit. The current administration is aggressively anti-green. My advice to anyone holding Tesla stock would be... time to sell.

Tesla was selling Clean Air Credits which are only bankable in states which follow CARB rules.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Your fuel is already offset. It's still more expensive than electricity. That's on you to keep buying V8s then. You still get a gas subsidy while the EV credit dies.

There is no "gas subsidy".

Tell me how that's fair? Neither should exist.

Correct. But we live in a State Capitalist Economy pretending to be a Free Market Capitalist Economy. No endeavor of substance is undertaken without government blessing with generous funds, grants, rule changes, and tax breaks. No apartment complex, no shopping center, no factory no matter if it builds EVs or pencils.

Local examples include a Toyota engine factory, a Toyota/Mazda factory, Polaris factory, and 1000 acre Facebook data center. More recently HUD has caused thousands upon thousands of "multi-family dwellings" be constructed. 5 years ago almost no 4 story apartment buildings and today there are hundreds of new, all 4 stories for some reason. And much fewer new home projects. This is not a "free market".

Why should a gasoline refining facility get tax breaks to lower gas prices when all they do is price fix to begin with?

What "tax breaks" are you referring to? Refineries get to write off expenses incurred in the production of gasoline exactly the same as any other business. Oil Haters have twisted these write-offs into subsidies, which they are not.

 

[Mechanician]

Well, somebody's buying them, right? A lotta somebodies. I'm on my 2nd Tesla Model 3; there is no other car I would even consider. The M3P is that good. Now, I am not interested in any electric PU.

And I think it's very cool... I could care less what others think; they can buy whatever they like.
Tesla is a great American car company; to me that's cool.

I have read that Tesla sales have fallen almost 15% - while general sales of EVs are up.
I believe Musk getting openly/publicly involved in politics, was a very poor business decision.
"Cool" is a very subjective label.

 

[Mechanician]

Here are some stats about the Tesla fall from grace.

Tesla Values Are Tanking Three Times Faster Than Any Other Brand​

https://insideevs.com/news/753814/used-tesla-values-depreciation-high/