Fast-food strikes set for cities nationwide

[Win]

Good grief.

The way you help the underclass is to create a robust economy that demands more labor than the market can supply, offers cheaper goods and services to the masses, and gives them the opportunity to start their own business delivering goods or services.

Arbitrary cost of labor increases will have the exact opposite effect - more people unemployed, more people on the government dole, and a higher cost for the goods and services struggling people use the most, because they can now afford to pay more.

If something like this goes through, it will be good times for used car dealers, tattoo artists, apartment owners, etc., as they get the restaurant owners money transferred to them via the minimum wage worker.

It will be like year around income tax "refunds".

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Win

Arbitrary cost of labor increases will have the exact opposite effect - more people unemployed, more people on the government dole, and a higher cost for the goods and services struggling people use the most, because they can now afford to pay more.

If something like this goes through, it will be good times for used car dealers, tattoo artists, apartment owners, etc., as they get the restaurant owners money transferred to them via the minimum wage worker.

It will be like year around income tax "refunds".



disagree that you'll have more on the government dole since those that don't have these jobs to save for a car/college/etc while living with mom and dad, likely are on the role already. That's my problem - too many already have their costs already shifted onto the taxpayer.

But lol about tattoo parlors. Surely you're not implying that there is an inequality where the lower and poorer classes frequent these places more. Shame on you. I wee call a thread where I caught a lot of flak for making such an accusation.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Win
Good grief.

The way you help the underclass is to create a robust economy that demands more labor than the market can supply, offers cheaper goods and services to the masses, and gives them the opportunity to start their own business delivering goods or services.


Having thought through going out on my own, the scariest thing ever is fending for myself for health insurance. I suppose if I worked at McDs and didn't have insurance I wouldn't have that hang-up. Otherwise it's a great way for powerful, big corporations to offer a better deal (through economies of scale in bidding for insurance) than the small guy.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: javacontour


If a burger, fries and drink are worth $Y, that's what the market will bear.

All this talk of the meal only goes up $0.29 or whatever figure discounts the idea that the market has already decided what that meal is worth to the consumer.



Hogwash. The same tasting slab of beef and fries costs different amounts at a gastropub, family restaurant and fast food joint. They also cost different amounts between places, e.g. Wendy, bk, five guys, etc.

Ditto for the same product costing different amounts at an airport, truckstop or standalone restaurant.

These places all stay in business and business thrives so obviously it isn't as dire as you claim.

Now I'm not for $15/hr at all. My dog in the hunt is to keep then from sapping MY tax dollars. I'd much prefer these costs to be on the consumer than the government.


I never said dire. Citing outliers such as airports isn't really addressing the true value. Many traveling are not spending their own money. Likewise, if you end the practice of preventing many food and drink items from passing security and you will find the price charged at the airport to drop.

Sure, the burger served at a sit down table order restaurant is higher. Why? Because your are paying for more than the burger. You are paying for service and an experience. Those who work at such places are likely earning more. These folks provide a valuable service. We don't place the same value on the assembly line burger production at a fast food outlet.


Big assumption if you think that a majority of travelers are not spending their own money on food therefore willing to spend more of it willy-nilly. Doesn't sound like a good employee or maximizing value if they are spendthrifts.

And to argue that foods revive workers who have a lower minimum wage than the other workers ($3.03/hr or something along those lines), and who earn by tips (service) drive the cost by what can be 2-4x higher is laughable.


Last night's dinner and drinks was $120 for a party of 6. Tip was $30 or over 20% of the after tax total. We were not her only table. Our waitress was knowledgeable of the menu, and the staff took extra measures to make sure there was no shellfish contact with my wife's food.

Not the same sort of service one would get from a fast food outlet. It's apples and oranges to compare wages at a modern Asian fusion restaurant to a fast food joint with drive through service.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Big assumption if you think that a majority of travelers are not spending their own money on food therefore willing to spend more of it willy-nilly. Doesn't sound like a good employee or maximizing value if they are spendthrifts.

And to argue that foods revive workers who have a lower minimum wage than the other workers ($3.03/hr or something along those lines), and who earn by tips (service) drive the cost by what can be 2-4x higher is laughable.


Last night's dinner and drinks was $120 for a party of 6. Tip was $30 or over 20% of the after tax total. We were not her only table. Our waitress was knowledgeable of the menu, and the staff took extra measures to make sure there was no shellfish contact with my wife's food.

Not the same sort of service one would get from a fast food outlet. It's apples and oranges to compare wages at a modern Asian fusion restaurant to a fast food joint with drive through service.


No, you paid $30 for service which is exactly my point. YOU are paying for service via tips. The $3-5 minimum wage
(sub-minimum wage) that the server gets is neither the main construct of their earnings, nor is it a major part of the costing of the food. Exactly my point.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Win

Arbitrary cost of labor increases will have the exact opposite effect - more people unemployed, more people on the government dole, and a higher cost for the goods and services struggling people use the most, because they can now afford to pay more.

If something like this goes through, it will be good times for used car dealers, tattoo artists, apartment owners, etc., as they get the restaurant owners money transferred to them via the minimum wage worker.

It will be like year around income tax "refunds".



disagree that you'll have more on the government dole since those that don't have these jobs to save for a car/college/etc while living with mom and dad, likely are on the role already. That's my problem - too many already have their costs already shifted onto the taxpayer.

But lol about tattoo parlors. Surely you're not implying that there is an inequality where the lower and poorer classes frequent these places more. Shame on you. I wee call a thread where I caught a lot of flak for making such an accusation.



It is frustrating to see the folks with the EBT cards in the check out ahead of you with bling, tattoos and probably a better car than I am driving because not only am I supporting my kids and saving for my retirement, but apparently I have to support almost another family too since 47% don't pay income taxes.

Then there are those who accuse me of not wanting to help the poor. I don't think they realize that in addition to my donations I am supporting others by picking up the slack of those not paying their fair share of income taxes.

The problem for many (NOT ALL for those who willfully or unwittingly mischarcterize what I am saying) is they are making poor choices. Simply GIVING them more money just because "we should" will not address the underlying problem of poor decision making.

If someone thinks they shoild make $ x/hr, their responsibility is to make a compelling value proposition to those who would hire them.

We do no favors by having government step in and force the issue. Such force does not address the factors for those unable to make the value proposition on the merits of the skills and talents they offer in the labor marketplace.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Win
Good grief.

The way you help the underclass is to create a robust economy that demands more labor than the market can supply, offers cheaper goods and services to the masses, and gives them the opportunity to start their own business delivering goods or services.


Having thought through going out on my own, the scariest thing ever is fending for myself for health insurance. I suppose if I worked at McDs and didn't have insurance I wouldn't have that hang-up. Otherwise it's a great way for powerful, big corporations to offer a better deal (through economies of scale in bidding for insurance) than the small guy.


I just have a lot of trouble getting my head around this.

I've bought health insurance on the open market my entire adult life. It was always readily available and inexpensive. Of course, I use insurance for it's intended purpose - protection against catastrophic loss - and don't expect it to pay for day to day stuff, or odd ball stuff like trans gender psycho therapy. I don't recall my BCBS paying for much last summer when I managed to break both my heel and my ankle, but the whole tab for that ordeal was less than $1000, iirc.

Health Insurance was a lot more affordable before legislation was enacted to make it more affordable. That was, of course, predictable and predicted.

Just kicking out all the illegal immigrants would go a long way to increasing the value of unskilled labor, and would also have a lot of other benefits, imho.

edit: which reminds me, one of my tenants is a business whose business is international money transfers. I'll take a WAG that if fast food wages are arbitrarily raised, a significant amount of this money will not even stay in the local or regional economy - it will go to Mexico, or El Salvador, or some other south of the border location.

Along with NAFTA, I think that is a really bad idea.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Hollow
This thread is really giving my "Ignore user" feature a workout.


LOL, I notice a rather high percentage is already on my list ...

I would just like to point out a few things.

The price of a "combo meal" already varies by local, and by more than .29 cents in some cases.

You can't really compare Five Guys (Smash Burger, Culver's, ETC) to Mc Donald's (Wendy's, Burger King, Hardee's, ETC).

The price of "fast food" is already approaching similar but better quality food in a "sit down" restaurant. I frankly don't think the fast food market will bear a 10-20% increase.

That said I think workers should be paid a fair wage for a fair days work, but I do not believe that you can make it so with legislation.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
...Simply GIVING them more money just because "we should" will not address the underlying problem of poor decision making.


This reminds me of that documentary where they took a homeless guy and gave him $50,000.00 and full access to investment/finance advisors. Anyone want to guess what happened and whether he availed himself of said advisors?

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: wsar10
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man


I never said 16. Also fast food is not a teenagers job. There are several older people working there. The jobs the people with an education once had are gone. A lot of jobs that once were are no more. And what are you talking about about? My wife went to college my wife has a degree in business and some schooling for vetrinary. She got the job at mcds because she was laid off from her previous job and she had to have a job. She has been looking for a better job for quite sometime there simply are none around here. No offense as I am a conservative but some of you so called conservatives only see black and white. When a corporation makes record profits yearly and they give huge bonuses to the big wigs there is no reason to not scratch the back of your workforce a little bit.


You were far more polite in reply than I would have been

I figured your situation was as you've described here. Your wife sounds like somebody who works hard because she feels she needs to work, regardless of the job. She doesn't want a hand-out or feel that she is "entitled". Pretty much the opposite of what he described.

Maybe you should re-read and understand what he is describing polite or not I don't care we are MEN here, I was not trying to offend anybody at all. IT IS EXACTLY entitlement said person feels entitled to a higher wage because they are over qualified for a position that they are working, when the position is ENTRY LEVEL. Its NOT "entitlement" in the sense of "I want something for free" or the kind of entitlements that Canada gives out in the form of welfare healthcare, but it is
entitlement none the less !


Im going to make this real simple. Everyone who works hard and is a good worker deserves a living wage without the govt help. Anything less than poverty line is honestly an insult. Whats the point of paying below the poverty line? Its almost as bad as what happened in the 20's when people got paid hardly anything and worked hard. If your working fulltime and cannot afford basic necessities there is a problem.

 

[Shannow]

"If we give them more money, they'll only fritter it away on candy"...cpupled with the God given right to a cheap burger, regardless on what the taxpayer spends subsidising the labour have made this a hilarious thread.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Win

Arbitrary cost of labor increases will have the exact opposite effect - more people unemployed, more people on the government dole, and a higher cost for the goods and services struggling people use the most, because they can now afford to pay more.

If something like this goes through, it will be good times for used car dealers, tattoo artists, apartment owners, etc., as they get the restaurant owners money transferred to them via the minimum wage worker.

It will be like year around income tax "refunds".



disagree that you'll have more on the government dole since those that don't have these jobs to save for a car/college/etc while living with mom and dad, likely are on the role already. That's my problem - too many already have their costs already shifted onto the taxpayer.

But lol about tattoo parlors. Surely you're not implying that there is an inequality where the lower and poorer classes frequent these places more. Shame on you. I wee call a thread where I caught a lot of flak for making such an accusation.



It is frustrating to see the folks with the EBT cards in the check out ahead of you with bling, tattoos and probably a better car than I am driving because not only am I supporting my kids and saving for my retirement, but apparently I have to support almost another family too since 47% don't pay income taxes.

Then there are those who accuse me of not wanting to help the poor. I don't think they realize that in addition to my donations I am supporting others by picking up the slack of those not paying their fair share of income taxes.

The problem for many (NOT ALL for those who willfully or unwittingly mischarcterize what I am saying) is they are making poor choices. Simply GIVING them more money just because "we should" will not address the underlying problem of poor decision making.

If someone thinks they shoild make $ x/hr, their responsibility is to make a compelling value proposition to those who would hire them.

We do no favors by having government step in and force the issue. Such force does not address the factors for those unable to make the value proposition on the merits of the skills and talents they offer in the labor marketplace.


Agree in general. Just remember the flak I got when making a stink about EBT holders using iPhones.

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
...If your working fulltime and cannot afford basic necessities there is a problem...


Yeah...maybe multiple problems. First one is you need to find a better paying job or a second job. Your employer is not responsible for your personal overhead. If you cannot find a better paying job it's probably because you are not qualified for one or you just aren't looking hard enough. There are several pages of "help wanted" ads in the local daily paper where I live and I can't believe it's not the same all over the country. Lastly, the problem is frequently a lack of money management skills and the inability to prioritize expenditures. Things like tobacco, alcohol, tattoos, electronic devices, etc. come to mind.

 

[jimbrewer]

Again, I live in an area with minimum wage above $10. I bought a taco at Taco Bell last Friday for 99 cents, just like anyone else. The Taco Bell was a new building replacing an old one.

I keep reading about how all this causes restaurants prices to soar. I can tell that it is simply not true. I repeat, simply not true. Economics isn't a religion. Its fact-based, not faith-based.

As I mentioned, there are more and more businesses catering to our burgeoning working-class and working poor population. They are ambivalent about all this for that reason.

Sure there is a knock-on effect. A fast-food restaurant manager making $8.53 an hour? Well, better plan on paying him twelve. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Wages have stagnated in this country for decades.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: javacontour

It is frustrating to see the folks with the EBT cards in the check out ahead of you with bling, tattoos and probably a better car than I am driving because not only am I supporting my kids and saving for my retirement, but apparently I have to support almost another family too since 47% don't pay income taxes.


Potentially, they got the tats and nice car before their lives crashed and they're the lingering legacy of once being middle class.

Let's not prejudge...

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Again, I live in an area with minimum wage above $10. I bought a taco at Taco Bell last Friday for 99 cents, just like anyone else. The Taco Bell was a new building replacing an old one.

I keep reading about how all this causes restaurants prices to soar. I can tell that it is simply not true. I repeat, simply not true. Economics isn't a religion. Its fact-based, not faith-based.

...


I have one question (and it is an honest question):

Is every thing else at the Taco Bell the same price as one in an area that does not have a minimum wage above 10.00 and does that go for other fast food joints as well?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
It is frustrating to see the folks with the EBT cards in the check out ahead of you with bling, tattoos and probably a better car than I am driving because not only am I supporting my kids and saving for my retirement, but apparently I have to support almost another family too since 47% don't pay income taxes.


A HUGE amen to that one! It`s like Michael Berry said,we (the hard working tax payers) should have the right to seize our food,cars,and homes bought on the EBT card,because after all,it`s *our* stuff! They can`t afford to feed their families or pay rent,but they sure as [censored] can get their hair did and somehow afford all those trashy tattoos of their boo`s name.

 

[javacontour]

Possibly true in SOME cases.

However, I also know from when I was married to my ex-wife who worked in a pharmacy in East St Louis that many getting the EBT cards and other benefits simply don't have a traditional income. So if you are selling drugs, or your body, or pumping out kids, you don't have W2 income and qualify for an EBT card.

I try not to pre-judge. But at the same time, I know from experience that many are working the system. They buy their bling and tats with money that never shows up as traditional income.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: javacontour

It is frustrating to see the folks with the EBT cards in the check out ahead of you with bling, tattoos and probably a better car than I am driving because not only am I supporting my kids and saving for my retirement, but apparently I have to support almost another family too since 47% don't pay income taxes.


Potentially, they got the tats and nice car before their lives crashed and they're the lingering legacy of once being middle class.

Let's not prejudge...

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: ram_man
...If your working fulltime and cannot afford basic necessities there is a problem...


Yeah...maybe multiple problems. First one is you need to find a better paying job or a second job. Your employer is not responsible for your personal overhead. If you cannot find a better paying job it's probably because you are not qualified for one or you just aren't looking hard enough. There are several pages of "help wanted" ads in the local daily paper where I live and I can't believe it's not the same all over the country. Lastly, the problem is frequently a lack of money management skills and the inability to prioritize expenditures. Things like tobacco, alcohol, tattoos, electronic devices, etc. come to mind.


I like how you generalize and say things like buying tobacco and alcohol..... you are judging all lower income people by a few bad apples. Also people have families if you have to work 60 hours or more a week when do you see your family? i cannot believe anyone can say "its ok for a big corporation to pay under a living wage" thats just insane. I am not advocating a bloated wage, i am saying enough to live on without needing govt help. But maybe thats what the system wants? If everyone needs a govt hand then the govt ultimately has an unhealthy amount of power over its people.

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Again, I live in an area with minimum wage above $10. I bought a taco at Taco Bell last Friday for 99 cents, just like anyone else. The Taco Bell was a new building replacing an old one.

I keep reading about how all this causes restaurants prices to soar. I can tell that it is simply not true. I repeat, simply not true. Economics isn't a religion. Its fact-based, not faith-based.

As I mentioned, there are more and more businesses catering to our burgeoning working-class and working poor population. They are ambivalent about all this for that reason.

Sure there is a knock-on effect. A fast-food restaurant manager making $8.53 an hour? Well, better plan on paying him twelve. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Wages have stagnated in this country for decades.


AMEN!!!!!