Fast-food strikes set for cities nationwide

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Yes and obviously that's wrong and one of the big fundamental problems. So how do we thin the herd and how do we deal with the excess until its thinned? What dictates who we keep and who gets dealt with?

Answers please. Seems you have it all figured out.


"Dictates?" As in dictator? Yeah, that may happen if the pendulum swing so far that enough people get fed up and put the wrong guy in charge (think mid-1930's). Hopefully, we'll never face that situation.

The only way out of the death spiral that I can see would be to slowly start unraveling the entitlement programs. Disability is the new welfare where I live.

A real good start would be to require sterilization of the parents when a child's birth is funded by the taxpayers. One and out sounds fair to me.

In order to get started in the right direction, only those who pay Federal income tax should be allowed to vote. Non-taxpayers are already determining the outcome of national elections. And of course you should have to show adequate identification at polling places to assure that you are qualified.

How's that?


THATS GOLDEN !!
And my thoughts as well,
MUST BE A TAX PAYER TO VOTE !!!!!!!!

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
...yes, I am an employee like every working person out there....


Wrong again. I can assure that there are many, many employers out that there who qualify as a "working person," many of them working harder and longer than their employees and certainly taking more risk.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
A friend of mine in college was a very well too do fellow. He was born into a wealthy family. His father owned 3 fast food joints. He brought in millions every year from those 3 places. Average wage of employees was $0.90 above minimum wage. Thats every employee tallied. The key his father would say, location. Within three months his 1st one was paid for and making him more money than he could spend. Within a year, all three were rolling in more cash than he could wipe his hind parts with. I am not against anyone making money. Having said that, Im sure fast food places could afford too pay alot more than they do.

Another example...
I personally worked during all 4 years of high school at the "golden arches". On saturday morning, at 4am, was there for every truck shipment too rotate inventory and restock. After a year of doing so, the manager made me a "swing manager" at 15 years old, gave me keys too store so she didnt have too be there at 4am. I was responsible for ordering and receipt of weekly supplies too keep the store running.
She sat me down and showed me how much everything costs, how much we needed, how too do everything.
I was shocked too discover the profit margin. Really made me regret working so hard and getting paid $4.25 an hour.

But it made me jump into college right outta high school so as too try and avoid a "career" there.

Just my 2 cents.


My first job was at McDonalds. Unfortunately, I was too young to be a manager(they changed policy to 18) otherwise I likely would have been one.

The MAIN advantage of working at a McDonalds if you are young is getting an understanding of how money works!

There are a lot of children out there who do not have any understanding of how money works until they get bounced out in the real world after college.

Throughout high school and college, their parents pay for everything. Then when the time comes to start paying their own bills ... bad things happen.

My first job was a McDonalds. My parents paid for my car, gas and insurance ... but I had to be working in order to keep it. I also had to start buying my own things.

I understand the value of a dollar.

\

 

[gofast182]

OK so this minimum wage stuff is annoying me. These ignoramuses who think they should get $15/hr deserve less than they make now just for being so ignorant.
Let's say Sally makes minimum wage and she learns a skill, oh, I don't know, like how to use Excel and that increases her value to the point where my employer can pay her $13/hr. Now Dumb and Dumber come along demanding $15/hr for a job that requires less skill and they get it. Now Sally should get $17/hr because she took the time to learn a valuable skill that they don't have. But Dave in the cubicle next to Sally who earns $17/hr because he also knows how to use PowerPoint now needs $19/hr because he has a skill Sally doesn't and the guy next to Dave knows how to...you get the idea.
Now let's examine Dumb and Dumber who now make $15/hr. They're sitting pretty with a "living wage" so if they're not assertive and motivated (trust me, they're not if they want $15/hr for nothing) what incentive do they have to learn how to use Excel or PowerPoint, better themselves or the the company? Not much.
Now let's look at the company. Sally, Dave, Dumb, and Dumber all make a lot more now and everything is fair, then you come along wanting to buy the widget they make but are taken aback by the price, it used to cost $9.99 but now it's $14.99. You're upset because it wasn't nearly that much before. Well, Bill the owner now has to pay $1,280/mo more in wages not to mention higher taxes. And it has to be this way because he can't sell it for any less or he would lose money and he can't sell it for any more because Wally's Widgets makes the same thing for nearly the same price and Bill has to compete in order to stay in business.
So what happens to McDonald's Dollar Menu after this? You think there's enough margin in $1.00 cheeseburgers to support paying everyone so much for no added value to the company? Not a chance. So, Dumb and Dumber, shut the [censored] up and flip your burgers or go out and take an economics class, I don't want to have to pay more for your ignorance (note I didn't say stupidity because these poor disenfranchised souls will still figure out how to get an iPhone 6 before I can).

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
My point was, minimum wage in an industry that makes billions yearly is sad and shows poor business practices that in the USA have become the norm.


What the naïve and uninitiated always fail to understand is that industries who make billions are frequently taking huge risks. Many of the "overpaid" owners, CEO's, CFO's etc. have huge personal stakes at risk. Profits are not automatic and those entrepreneurs could just as easily have lost billions. All the typical employee has to lose is his current job.

 

[JANDSZIRKLE]

Maximus1966 ....

You can pick apart my post any way that makes you happy. Was just my 2 cents, as stated. I have no "Beef" with you and you are entitled too your opinion as am I.

We can just agree too disagree on the issue if it makes you happy. I mean no disrespect towards you.

I do think people are on too something though. I too feel it should be required too pay taxes and present a ID too vote. Guess that makes me a racist bigot.

I see alot of kids with parent(s) whom work the fast food jobs. Long hours odd shifts that without state assistance of some sort would be homeless. Single parent homes with the parent working two jobs, the kids all but raise themselves really.

My mother raised 5 of us on her own. Worked three jobs. Was barely ever home and if so, not awake. We all learned quick the value of a dollar thanks too my father being a raging alcoholic. Not an excuse, not looking for sympathy, just explaining.

Seems to be a great distance nowadays between people in this country who have and those who have not. Im not saying we redistribute the wealth and bring everyone too the same playing field, I am not agaisnt a fair wage. $16.00/hr seems a good bit of a stretch though i will admit.

 

[kschachn]

Chumps? Heh, yah. Thanks dude. I'm glad you don't run a business that I frequent. I'd hate for you to think of me, a customer, as a "chump".

Where is this money coming from to pay everyone $16 an hour? You must be a government worker where they just print money to pay bills. It doesn't work that way "out here".

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: kschachn
If they strike they should be fired. I own a restaurant and there is a line of people that want jobs. They could be replaced the same day with people happy to accept the current pay rate.

If I had to raise my wages even a buck an hour that would spell doom for my business. All you people that think $16 is acceptable for a minimum-wage job are either grossly ignorant of the real world, delusional or have never owned or operated a business. Or you work for the government.

The thing I just can't understand is why someone thinks a mythical job paying $16 is better than an actual job paying $8. Raise the minimum wage to $16 and there will be a lot of mythical jobs for everybody.


Are you basing this on your competition paying $16 an hour also?

If all the chumps that ate at your restaurant made $16, would they go there additionally enough to cover your paying out $16?

$16 overnight would be a shock to the system like we assumed $3.59 gas would be a dealbreaker 10 years back, but things are more or less normal.

 

[kschachn]

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the whole reason why they should even if they could. Why is that a concern of yours? It's not your business. It's not your money. These types of jobs do NOT warrant higher pay. Plain and simple.

What about other minimum wage jobs? Should everyone make no less than $15 an hour? What about a minimum hour per week law? Wouldn't it be unfair for me to hire you for only one hour a week at $15? Don't you deserve a bigger paycheck than $15? This "living wage" movement is harping about an hourly wage but in reality it is about a paycheck. So should I be prohibited from hiring part-time workers?

Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
I am not against anyone making money. Having said that, Im sure fast food places could afford too pay alot more than they do.

 

[Maximus1966]

JAN, I mean no disrespect toward you. If you have not been on both sides of the issue, you just don't have all the information you need to develop a balanced opinion. Besides, you are just one of many who seem to be buying in to the whole class envy phenomenon. I was raised dirt poor and have inhabited the extreme lower socio-economic class, the middle class, and now I guess what you would call upper middle class. I have been employee and employer. Never once did I resent the fact that there were others higher on the ladder of financial success than myself. I'm just grateful that I was born in a country where there really is no upper limit for a particular individual.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: needsducktape
I am happy we live in a country that one has the right to protest !

By the way, people should get paid a *living* wage weather or not its $16 and hour depends on where you live. In New York city $16 an hour won't get you far.

I know the stereotype of everyone working in fast food is lazy,stupid or a welfare rat But that is not the case. Decent, honest and hard working people are in that industry too.

I wish someone would protest CEOs getting over paid by millions and getting a "golden parachute" AFTER they run a company into the ground.



Ding ding ding! This +1

The problem is not minimum wage, the problem is everything else is not affordable if you work that job. I give people credit who are working a minimum wage job, especially when it doesn't make sense financially.

Think about it for a second...

My friend is currently on unemployment. He has the "entitled" attitude which is a story for a different thread, but here is the issue...

When looking for jobs, most of the available jobs are minimum wage. Right now, he makes more per week sitting home collecting his unemployment check. Let me say that again so you understand it. He makes MORE money sitting home doing NOTHING, than he would if he actually worked all day at a minimum wage job. Now you see why people find it easier to just collect assistance.

Let us look at it from another perspective...

I have another friend who has been in a wheelchair since he was born. He is very active, plays sports, and takes a few college classes when he can afford them. He has been working at the same minimum wage job for about 6 years. He started when minimum wage was $8.50 or so. He is now a shift leader, has done numerous training programs, is the most knowledgeable of the staff working there, yet he only makes $9.50 an hour now. He could easily run the whole store himself and is a very hard worker. Most of the workers there make around $9.00 per hour.

The problem is that these franchises are there to make money. There is NO opportunity to advance in these franchises, it doesn't matter how good of a worker you are. You are a machine to them. If you don't like the wage, there is another person in line waiting to take your place. All they need is someone who can do the job, and with the large number of people needing jobs, they can always find someone who will do it for cheap.

My buddy scored a 98% on his last training test for manager related duties. When he asked for a small raise they pretty much laughed at him, yet gave him more duties since they now know he is capable of doing them.

Not to mention that minimum wage hardly pays for anything now. My friend in the wheelchair makes $9.50 an hour as mentioned above. His car is paid for, and he lives at home with his parents 10 minutes from work, so he has a short commute. Even without a car payment, the hours he works (max allowable for part-time) are just enough to cover college costs, car insurance, fuel, food, etc. We looked into co-renting an apartment, and everything in the surrounding area is too expensive. This is why many college students either have lots of debt, or are living home.

 

[kschachn]

So? Why is that a "problem"? And your comment about "NO" advancement opportunities is flat out wrong. You are going on about something where you do not know what you are talking about.

Explain to me again why a business making money for the owners is a "problem" because I missed that whole part.

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
The problem is that these franchises are there to make money. There is NO opportunity to advance in these franchises, it doesn't matter how good of a worker you are. You are a machine to them. If you don't like the wage, there is another person in line waiting to take your place. All they need is someone who can do the job, and with the large number of people needing jobs, they can always find someone who will do it for cheap.

My buddy scored a 98% on his last training test for manager related duties. When he asked for a small raise they pretty much laughed at him, yet gave him more duties since they now know he is capable of doing them.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm still a bit fuzzy on the whole reason why they should even if they could. Why is that a concern of yours? It's not your business. It's not your money. These types of jobs do NOT warrant higher pay. Plain and simple.

What about other minimum wage jobs? Should everyone make no less than $15 an hour? What about a minimum hour per week law? Wouldn't it be unfair for me to hire you for only one hour a week at $15? Don't you deserve a bigger paycheck than $15? This "living wage" movement is harping about an hourly wage but in reality it is about a paycheck. So should I be prohibited from hiring part-time workers?

Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
I am not against anyone making money. Having said that, Im sure fast food places could afford too pay alot more than they do.

Mr. ZIRKLE must think there's a ton of margin in selling cheap processed food from a Dollar Menu. Because of that, these people get paid what they're worth to the company and nothing less plus their employment is "at-will" so they're free to leave if they're unhappy. No one "deserves" anything except their basic constitutional rights. Anything after that, including a wage, is something that has to be earned.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
JAN, I mean no disrespect toward you. If you have not been on both sides of the issue, you just don't have all the information you need to develop a balanced opinion. Besides, you are just one of many who seem to be buying in to the whole class envy phenomenon. I was raised dirt poor and have inhabited the extreme lower socio-economic class, the middle class, and now I guess what you would call upper middle class. I have been employee and employer. Never once did I resent the fact that there were others higher on the ladder of financial success than myself. I'm just grateful that I was born in a country where there really is no upper limit for a particular individual.

It's interesting though that changing your economic status is actually getting harder in the US than many other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States
Congrats on your success, but its harder now for the next kid in your situation. The table is tilted for the rich kids at the moment.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^good point.

I sure hope those bleeding hearts are ready to double the price of their McHeartattack burger, because that's exactly what will happen.

This is all a spin off of the blatant class warfare that is currently popular. Imagining that the successful among us are somehow are evil is the root of the problem.

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
JAN, I mean no disrespect toward you. If you have not been on both sides of the issue, you just don't have all the information you need to develop a balanced opinion. Besides, you are just one of many who seem to be buying in to the whole class envy phenomenon. I was raised dirt poor and have inhabited the extreme lower socio-economic class, the middle class, and now I guess what you would call upper middle class. I have been employee and employer. Never once did I resent the fact that there were others higher on the ladder of financial success than myself. I'm just grateful that I was born in a country where there really is no upper limit for a particular individual.

It's interesting though that changing your economic status is actually getting harder in the US than many other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States
Congrats on your success, but its harder now for the next kid in your situation. The table is tilted for the rich kids at the moment.


The table is ALWAYS tilted for rich kids. And that's as it should be. What's the point of striving to be rich if it doesn't provide perks for you and your kids? The beauty of our system (when not distorted by government interference) is that upward mobility is possible for EVERYONE. Of course it is going to be more difficult for some and less for others. The point is not that there are varying degrees of difficulty but that anyone willing to do what it takes has the opportunity to make it work.

 

[Trajan]

Business leaders all over the country said that the $5 day would bring ruin back then.

They were wrong.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
So? Why is that a "problem"? And your comment about "NO" advancement opportunities is flat out wrong. You are going on about something where you do not know what you are talking about.

Explain to me again why a business making money for the owners is a "problem" because I missed that whole part.

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
The problem is that these franchises are there to make money. There is NO opportunity to advance in these franchises, it doesn't matter how good of a worker you are. You are a machine to them. If you don't like the wage, there is another person in line waiting to take your place. All they need is someone who can do the job, and with the large number of people needing jobs, they can always find someone who will do it for cheap.

My buddy scored a 98% on his last training test for manager related duties. When he asked for a small raise they pretty much laughed at him, yet gave him more duties since they now know he is capable of doing them.


THere are two sides to this whole thing - value for the wages and offset of costs to society.

When I was quoted $250/hr for a tradesperson to do some work, I voted with my wallet and did not use them. Came out WAY ahead on a fairly straightforward task. Of course the tech wasnt making $250/hr, or even $100/hr burdened rate. Value for the wage wasnt there and I refused to be ripped off to make someone else's boat payment. That was MY analysis and determination knowing burdened rate costs for a large number of professionals and businesses doing highly specialized and technical work.

The other side of it is if someone is making money (absolutely nothing wrong with that in and of itself) by shifting its employees' costs off onto society, so that the taxpayer has to cover them. For that to be the case is treacherous, and the business owner isnt making money, they are stealing money from the taxpayers at large - they should make money because of the ability to create value with a product or service, not from stealing by putting their employees on medicaid and welfare. Because for as stupid as it is, some people only have the aptitude, ability and drive to work the most basic jobs.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
JAN, I mean no disrespect toward you. If you have not been on both sides of the issue, you just don't have all the information you need to develop a balanced opinion. Besides, you are just one of many who seem to be buying in to the whole class envy phenomenon. I was raised dirt poor and have inhabited the extreme lower socio-economic class, the middle class, and now I guess what you would call upper middle class. I have been employee and employer. Never once did I resent the fact that there were others higher on the ladder of financial success than myself. I'm just grateful that I was born in a country where there really is no upper limit for a particular individual.

It's interesting though that changing your economic status is actually getting harder in the US than many other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States
Congrats on your success, but its harder now for the next kid in your situation. The table is tilted for the rich kids at the moment.


The table is ALWAYS tilted for rich kids. And that's as it should be. What's the point of striving to be rich if it doesn't provide perks for you and your kids? The beauty of our system (when not distorted by government interference) is that upward mobility is possible for EVERYONE. Of course it is going to be more difficult for some and less for others. The point is not that there are varying degrees of difficulty but that anyone willing to do what it takes has the opportunity to make it work.

Max....I like the way you think! Good post.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JANDSZIRKLE
Maximus1966 ....

You can pick apart my post any way that makes you happy. Was just my 2 cents, as stated. I have no "Beef" with you and you are entitled too your opinion as am I.

We can just agree too disagree on the issue if it makes you happy. I mean no disrespect towards you.

I do think people are on too something though. I too feel it should be required too pay taxes and present a ID too vote. Guess that makes me a racist bigot.

I see alot of kids with parent(s) whom work the fast food jobs. Long hours odd shifts that without state assistance of some sort would be homeless. Single parent homes with the parent working two jobs, the kids all but raise themselves really.

My mother raised 5 of us on her own. Worked three jobs. Was barely ever home and if so, not awake. We all learned quick the value of a dollar thanks too my father being a raging alcoholic. Not an excuse, not looking for sympathy, just explaining.

Seems to be a great distance nowadays between people in this country who have and those who have not. Im not saying we redistribute the wealth and bring everyone too the same playing field, I am not agaisnt a fair wage. $16.00/hr seems a good bit of a stretch though i will admit.


Not to derail this thread or detract from your points but: to, too and two. You are consistently using the wrong one and it is a driving me nuts trying to read this stuff!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Part of the problem is everyone thinking "per hour". Quit using a unit of time to drive all your decisions.

Technically we exceed 3 figures per hour all the time. But we have brought a hugely capable piece of expensive machinery that has maintenance and fuel costs and a limited lifespan, and a trained and certified bonded insured worker or even two. Yet we still meet misinformed folks who imagine we are making way too much money because they can only relate to a per hour wage like they make. I have had more than one announce that this is way too much for anyone to make PER HOUR and they just won't pay it. But our quotes are always lump sum, I myself would never pay any tradesperson by the hour as that's too open ended for my taste.

You can't blame a tradesman because he's GOOD at his job! If he finishes quickly and the workmanship is good then everyone should be happy.

Our new society disgusts me. People do not think they need to work. 39 states now pay more than minimum wage in welfare programs, it's no wonder, eh? We have a whole generation who has NEVER seen Mom or Dad get up and go to work!