F-14 Questions Answered - Ask Away

[Astro14]

Astro, out of curiosity what was the success rate of the mile long swim in full gear? Were there any time restrictions? That had to be an absolute bear!

I think we had a pretty good success rate in my class - a couple of guys had to repeat it because they took longer than the hour alloted to complete the swim. Now, to be fair, you had to be athletic to even get into the Navy flight training program. You had to meet minimum requirements for a 1.5 mile run, pushups, pull-ups and sit-ups. The recruiters warned you that there would be lots of swimming as well.

One friend of mine, an AOCS classmate, was a “swim rock”. A former football player at Tennessee Tech, he just couldn’t relax in the water. He would tense up and sink like a rock. He failed the drown-proofing over and over. He had to attend lots of remedial swim classes, but eventually made it. He was smart, determined, and a very competitive athlete, but not a great swimmer. Barry Eugene Wilmore.

The world knows him now as the astronaut - former space shuttle pilot, International Space Station Commander, and part of the crew that was accidentally stranded in space for 9 months by the Boeing Starliner test flight.

But back in 1986, Barry was a classmate who needed help meeting the swim standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Wilmore

 

[Hohn]

I understand - we had the baro chamber, and had to deal with hypoxia at 25,000 feet, which the USAF also did.

Forget hypoxia, the worst part was when all your academy classmates are popping off with more gas that a Taco Bell management convention.

The funniest part was all the female cadets joining right in with no effort to try to contain the uncontainable.

The ejection EPT that we had was similar to the USAF - but in talking with my USAF peers - there was nothing like Navy Water Survival training, which was important immediately following the ejection.

The closest thing to water survival we got at the Academy was just a 10m jump off the high dive in BDUs, followed by having to swim a given distance underwater, make a "hole" in the "burning fuel at the surface" so you could pop up to breathe and then demonstrate static floatation by inflating your BDU blouse and securing it around your neck.

Hardly comparable to a cockpit dump like they do at Pensacola.

Classmate of mine cross-commissioned to the USMC and flew F/A 18s. He didn't like the yayhoo USAF mindset exemplified by many of our cadet peers set on flying and wanted to fly with people he perceived as more serious or professional.

He ended up invented a cool widget to allow high-def LITENING pod imagery to show up on a cockpit IPad.

He's apparently a "Phone Colonel" now and apparently is running a test detachment at Yuma, might be retired now like many of my classmates. That's him front and center with the properly blocked cover. Good dude, I'd say he'd give you the shirt off his back but that's a massive understatement. He'd take a bullet for you and then make sure you were safe before giving himself permission to bleed.

 

[billt460]

Astro, your story about Barry reminds me about the scene in the Coast Guard movie with Kevin Costner, "The Guardian". The class was in the pool treading water, and the strongest guy in the group, who was built like a weightlifter, didn't last at all, and was booted.

Costner told the class, "muscle does not float!".

 

[billt460]

 

[spasm3]

@Astro14, did you know David Fravor?

 

[MountainManDan]

O M G - this is Truly Great stuff - could easily be Must Read for Air Force Pilots to be . .

I use to Party with Bunch of those Pilot Guys always getting into some Pranks ..

Security Guys were all on My Floor also ..

Anyhow 3rd Time I Built My Bike to be a Beast after Breaking Motor in came back from Florida to GA early Spring time
still had some Cool Nights . . I had heard we had a semi Broken F14 on Base came in to be Repaired ..
Guys that Tweaked & Rebuilt all Engines & Helped Me with Part of Build on My 1200cc Super-Glide ( Think ) Machine Shop
with Unlimited capabilities . .

OK so Bike was Cranking out Bad $SS HP & Tq. 12.5:1 Compression & so many other Tweaks - I'd Fill another 2-3 Paragraphs . .
Ported Twice - Once Before Custom 4 angle Grind on Valves while Lowering Valves .060 Deeper into Head - to
Reduce Spring Tension `\ : - ) for Faster RPM Climb . . , so Ported again & Added Super Feather Light Forged Pistons .020 Over Bore ..

Full set of Andrew's Drag Gears - Taller then Close Ratio up 3 Teeth in Front - Down 4 in Rear Drilled Out Sprocket & Brake Rotor
Dropping some real weight for more Spin Up ..

OK enough said I Found My way down to Runway - as I Heard Testing was being Done & F14 was Leaving Next Day ..

I get down there and Watched as Turned right next to Big Backing Plate approx 14ft-16ft wide lower half concrete want to
say 7ft High . . could have been even Higher - Light Up After Burners Blue Redis Cones stretched out what seemed
Like 18ft or More into Night - was still - like 160ft away on service road .. approx 1am in Morning , so
something Secret was Going Down ..

After First 2 Test _ I decided I'd just have a Go see what Speed that Thing could Do . .

I Lined Up and Pulled Up along Side on 3rd Test about 20ft Off Planes Right Wing - Cockpit was Lite - He was Watching
I just Rev Bikes Motor few Times and Nodded Down Run way . He first gave Funny Look - Like what Hell . .

Then He gave Me a Salute & I Gave 1 Back - I Rev More & More - He Throttled Beast Way Up - Brakes Locked , Plane Sliding Forward
He Released & Mod Harley Clutch Dug In - Tire Spinning - We both Off 1st Gear - Out Past Nose Tip , second Gear Pulling away
3rd I'm Gone , but I able to Hear Engines Coming 3rd Gear Tops out around 115 mph ~ Man ~ that Beast Blew By Me with such
Shock Wave ~ Bike went 8ft to right then Sucked Me back 6ft to Left to where Beast was 1/2 sec. ago - He's Air Born ..

Turns Out Next Day they had a send Off -we went down to flight Line to watch - this F-14 goes like 220-250 ft Off in Air
Pushes Engines to even Higher Power Pulls Nose Up - into - Straight Up & Never Gets Out of It ~ Just Climbs Up , Up
BAM - Big - Sonic Boom still Going Straight Up into Clouds .. Broke Sound Barrier I'd say at around 800-900 ft Off Ground
Maybe 1000 ft Loudest Sonic Boom I ever Heard & I have Heard Many . . Kept Climbing watch had to be 20,000 ft & Still Going

Heard Later from Guys in Machine Shop that Both Engines were Cranked Up as Captain of Air Craft Carrier wanted Special
Early Alert Plane that could get Highest Point Fastest & Ready before anything else on Planet . .

 

[Astro14]

@Astro14, did you know David Fravor?

I never met him - but to be brutally honest - when I saw him on the PBS Documentary, I thought he was an insufferable, pompous jerk who made a lousy Commanding Officer. I cringed every time he was on camera. I knew his XO, Dell Bull, who was another pompous jerk. Life in the Black Aces under those two must have been miserable.

This was before the UFO thing came out, but I remain unimpressed.

A data point - nearly every Naval Officer who has command as a Commander (as he did) gets selected for Captain.

CDR Fravor did not.

That speaks volumes.

 

[Hohn]

I never met him - but to be brutally honest - when I saw him on the PBS Documentary, I thought he was an insufferable, pompous jerk who made a lousy Commanding Officer. I cringed every time he was on camera. I knew his XO, Dell Bull, who was another pompous jerk. Life in the Black Aces under those two must have been miserable.

This was before the UFO thing came out, but I remain unimpressed.

A data point - nearly every Naval Officer who has command as a Commander (as he did) gets selected for Captain.

CDR Fravor did not.

That speaks volumes.

Yeah, it's one of those forks in the road that determines who's been selected for higher command and who will retire at O-5.

I remember when I was deployed we had a pax jet land and there was all kinds of buzz for a LtCol who was aboard. As a tired tarmac-pounding Capt, I was like whatever, there's plenty of silver oak leaves around this place.

Then it was explained to me that she had made below the zone to both Major and LtCol. That right there is "the anointing" that indicates a flag rank career path has been arranged for you if you don't screw it up. Her appearance at our facility was part of an orientation to a new position at CENTCOM that was no doubt part of the grooming process.

Fravor was likely on that same kind of path, but forgot about the "don't screw it up" part.


One of the most eye opening insights into how senior promotions work was provided by someone I knew who had worked on the personnel board that sees all the 0-6 files shuffling for that first star and saw how the board works up close. Here's what they told me are the most important criteria:
1) Do we know you? (probably 50% of the promotion choice in his estimation)
2) How well do you represent the service? How would you represent the flag ranks in particular? (~30% of the choice)
3) What is your command/service record? (20% or so).

Kind of an epiphany that the majority of the decision seems to have nothing to do with your service record/OPR/OER directly. Rather, it's what those assignments and reviews gave you in terms of opportunities to improve the "do we know you" and such.


So it's no wonder that the 1st Commandant of Cadets I had at a first class cadet later went on to be Chief of Staff. Commandant is a position for the upwardly mobile "fast burners." Unlike the 3- star Superintendent position, which is a "sorry about not getting your 4th star" consolation prize cap to nonetheless impressive career.

 

[wwillson]

Then it was explained to me that she had made below the zone to both Major and LtCol.

Explain for those of us that don't understand what "below the zone" means.

 

[R_W_M]

Explain for those of us that don't understand what "below the zone" means.

Early promotion. Selected for a higher rank before the normal time in grade. "Deep Selected" is a more familiar term to me.

 

[billt460]

If Hultgren was a man, do you guys think he would have ever made it into the front seat of an F-14? (Just looking for personal opinion).

 

[Hohn]

Explain for those of us that don't understand what "below the zone" means.

As said, it’s early promotion. Promotion before the “normal” window of tenure that would get you being looked at for promotion.

As a recent retirement for a friend who was completing his active service as a Ranger, the guy who spoke was an 0-6 who looked like he was about 35 years old. That’s the kind of guy who who will be deep into the flag ranks when he retires.