Excessive oil consumption

[tinmanSC]

I was changing my neighbor's oil today in their 2000 Ford Windstar with 122K. When I drained the oil out it was very very black. I know color is a poor indicator of oil life, but this was blacker than black. I was quite surprised. As I was draining the oil, I unscrewed the drain plug and the oil started to come out. I turned away for a second to get a Blackstone oil sample container, I turned back, and the oil was done draining. I got less than a quart out of the engine. I drained the filter (STP model S3600) and I got just under 1 quart of oil in total from the oil and the filter. This engine with filter takes about 5.5 quarts.

I'm a bit concerned about this. I understand they even added oil to this engine since the last oil change (the engine has been using high mileage oils for some thousands of miles). This is a great deal of oil to loose. There appear to be no leaks around the engine, so I assume the engine is burning the oil. I drive the van from their house, right next door, to my house and the oil light was not on.

I guess any advice would be helpful. This seems kinda nutty!

 

[JOD]

How long since they changed the oil?

 

[Tim4mods]

I wouldn't think this engine would burn oil like that but it may especially if not properly maintained I would be willing to bet there is a leak somewhere mabie the oil filter didn't seal properly. My sugestion would be fill it up with oil and get a new filter and with the engine running inspect for leaks. If it does burn oil that bad I might would suggest a little thicker oil with a higher viscosity. Also is there any visible sludge in the motor?

 

[oilmaven]

Sorry, but those 3.8L Ford engines were c*ap (unless this was a base model which for a few model years came with the 3.0L V6 Vulcan engine which was decent). I don't know if the head gaskets were ever changed out but I'd be surprised if they weren't at some point. The failure rate for the gaskets was VERY high...and replacements didn't seem to hold up either. In many cases when they failed they quickly took out the bearings and engine("catastrophic" failure). I'm not sure about other engine issues or what could account for the black oil and low oil level (although poor maintenance comes to mind) but I'd personally avoid those vans like the plague.

 

[Tim4mods]

It was the '90s models that had the problems '95 had major head gaset failures and ford extended the warranty the later '90s had problems with intake gaskets and front seals the newer model years 2000+ were quite reliable and actually received a realibility award

 

[229]

Do an oil consumption test on it.

 

[demarpaint]

Now the question is how long did they run that engine with less than 1 qt of oil? No warning light, very odd. I'd say if they ran it that low for any extended amount of time that engine is now ruined, if it wasn't ruined already. You should explain that and CYA. Remember no good deed goes unpunished, they might blame you if that engine dies now.

 

[Virtuoso]

Would it even be able to build pressure with only a quart of oil? I would imagine there's about that much flowing in the engine at any one point in time during operation.

 

[Burt]

Originally Posted By: Tim4mods
It was the '90s models that had the problems '95 had major head gaset failures and ford extended the warranty the later '90s had problems with intake gaskets and front seals the newer model years 2000+ were quite reliable and actually received a realibility award


I can vouch for the later 90's. 13 years and 160,000 miles and head gasket is fine. Intake leaked at 50k, but caused no damage.

Head gasket leak would cause the oil to turn brown, not black.

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Now the question is how long did they run that engine with less than 1 qt of oil? No warning light, very odd. I'd say if they ran it that low for any extended amount of time that engine is now ruined, if it wasn't ruined already. You should explain that and CYA. Remember no good deed goes unpunished, they might blame you if that engine dies now.


+1

 

[Barkleymut]

BY OP - "I drained the filter (STP model S3600) and I got just under 1 quart of oil in total from the oil and the filter. This engine with filter takes about 5.5 quarts.

I'm a bit concerned about this."

Understatement of the century! - I personally would print out this thread and take it to them. I would not want to lose a friend over a blown engine. Also recommend they get the CEL checked out, because if there was only a quart of oil in there it is not working.

 

[oilmaven]

Just Google "Ford Windstar" and see what pops up. Despite attempts to improve the van in later years (with some success) that vehicle was never one of Ford's "better ideas". I'm not saying that some owners didn't have luck with them and I personally found them to be roomy and comfortable (I like minivans) but overall that vehicle was a dud for Ford due to all the bad press and customer complaints.

The latest recall was January of this year for 525,000 1999-2003 Windstars for subframe corrosion issues (leading to possible separation of the subframe and subsequent loss of steering)in 23 northern states that use salt in the winter. This was not to be confused with a previous recall for corrosion issues with the rear axle (resulting in the van separating from said axle). Chrysler and GM had their own problems with their respective minivans of this era (Chrysler transmissions and GM V6 intake gaskets highlight the list). Bottom line is these were NOT well-designed or particularly reliable vehicles and their reputation proves that out. Ford has come a long way and the Big 3 each have their share of past lemons...the Windstar just may have been one of Fords biggest.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: oilmaven
The latest recall was January of this year for 525,000 1999-2003 Windstars for subframe corrosion issues (leading to possible separation of the subframe and subsequent loss of steering)in 23 northern states that use salt in the winter. This was not to be confused with a previous recall for corrosion issues with the rear axle (resulting in the van separating from said axle).


Yes, they had both of these recalls taken care of. The van was away from 2 months while they fixed the rear axle issue! 2 months! It was kinda nice, Ford game them a Hyundai as a loner car! *snicker*

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: 229
Do an oil consumption test on it.

Hum.... how? I assume you top it off and then just drive it for x miles?

Originally Posted By: oilmaven
Sorry, but those 3.8L Ford engines were c*ap (unless this was a base model which for a few model years came with the 3.0L V6 Vulcan engine which was decent). I don't know if the head gaskets were ever changed out but I'd be surprised if they weren't at some point. The failure rate for the gaskets was VERY high...


Yes, this is the 3.8L V6. The head gaskets have not been replaced.

 

[mechtech2]

Fill it up and note the oil use.

 

[CrAlt]

Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Would it even be able to build pressure with only a quart of oil? I would imagine there's about that much flowing in the engine at any one point in time during operation.


The oil light is not a indicator of good oil pressure. Just an indicator of NO oil pressure.

Most senders only need 5 or 6psi to keep the light OFF. He could have been rolling down the highway at 3000rpm with 8psi of oil and AIR getting to the mains and that light isnt gona glow.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut

Understatement of the century! - I personally would print out this thread and take it to them. I would not want to lose a friend over a blown engine. Also recommend they get the CEL checked out, because if there was only a quart of oil in there it is not working.


The CEL has absoultly nothing to do with oil pressure... The oil pressure indicator will(should) glow with less than 6psi or the fake oil pressure gauge will read zero... Maintaining oil pressure with only two quarts is going to be iffy at best, if it isn't making any strange noises likely it's OK...

Really black oil indicates lack of maintenance(or possibly rich running engine) as does the low level... Assuming it had two quarts of oil added and traveled 10K mi since the last OCI, that would be approx 2K mi per quart, actually not terrible...

 

[BubbaFL]

I had a similar problem with my wife's Windstar last fall. Changed the oil after a 3k OCI and it was 2 quarts low.

The original left (front) valve cover design was defective. This combined with a failed PCV valve and leaky intake manifold gaskets allowed two quarts of oil to get sucked into the intake.

Dorman makes a kit with a replacement valve cover, PCV valve, and tube. This plus new intake manifold gaskets and bushings on the bolts that hold the plenum to the intake solved my problem.

 

[ronrackley]

This might be a long shot for modern engines and oils, but in the "old days" (1960s and 1970s) I knew of an engine or two that had so much sludge in the oil pan that far less than the oil according to the fill capacity would drain out. How much new oil did it take to get it to the top mark on the dipstick?

 

[tig1]

A friend has a 2003 Windstar 3.8 with 140K. I often change his oil and he does 15K OCIs with M1 5-30EP. He did have a lower intake man. gasket fail this last spring. We changed it out(not easy)and so far no problems. The engine is spotless and the oil drains out a nice dark amber, and never has to add between changes. I would say this engine(OPs) suffers from owner neglect as much as anything.