Even in Europe. Asian cars, among the best. Euro cars the worst.

[Audi Junkie]

Buyers See More Value in Brand Than Incentives, Says Strategic Vision San Diego

–Strong anticipated resale value, reliability and durability helped propel Japanese brands to top spots on 12 of 23 segments on Strategic Vision’s 2005 Total Value Index™ (TVI). The San-Diego based research firm today announced results of its value calculations that factor economic issues against the quality of the complete ownership experience.
Toyota Motor Sales repeated as the corporation with the most winners, four for Lexus (one a tie), one for Toyota and two for upstart Scion, which was the top-rated brand. General Motors won four segments, as did Honda/Acura (one a tie) and BMW/Mini. Nissan scored two wins, while Audi, Ford, Kia and Subaru had one apiece.

“A strong brand reputation equates in owners’ minds to value,” says Strategic Vision CEO Darrel Edwards, Ph.D. “The expected economic issues of reliability, durability and resale value can carry more weight than incentives since buyers define value not just by price paid, but what they get for their money.”

“For 2005,” continues Strategic Vision Vice-President Daniel Gorrell, “we’re seeing brands, such as Honda, Lexus and BMW, winning many segments on the strength of their reputations in long-term economic issues. In some cases they offered attractive leases on soon-to-be replaced models, and those soared to the head of their class. Incentives on less respected brands do not have the same effect.”

Scion showed major gains for 2005, unseating sister brand Lexus as highest scoring in Total Value. Two of its three models (xA and xB) led their segments, scoring well in value for the money, economical to own, extremely affordable, standard equipment and fuel economy.

Mini Cooper was the highest scoring model (803), followed by its convertible versions (793), Scion xA and Nissan Altima (tied at 791) and the BMW-3-Series (790). Segment leaders, based on ratings of more than 69,000 buyers, were:

Small Car - Scion xA (791)
Small Multi-Function - Scion xB (770)
Medium Car - Nissan Altima (791)
Medium Multi-Function - Chevrolet Malibu Maxx (742)
Larger Car - Kia Amanti (773)
Near-Luxury Car - BMW 3-Series (790)
Luxury Car - Lexus GS (778), Acura RL (777), Lexus LS 430 (777 tie)
Luxury Multi-Function - Audi A4 /S4 Avant (743)
Small Specialty ($25,000) - BMW 3-Series Coupe (767)
Mid-Specialty Car - Honda Accord Coupe* (785)
Convertible ($30,000) - Cadillac XLR* (774)
Minivan - Honda Odyssey (719)
Small SUV - Honda Element (763)
Medium SUV - Toyota 4Runner* (721)
Medium Crossover - Nissan Murano (733)
Large SUV - Chevrolet Tahoe (716)
Near Luxury SUV - Lexus RX 330* (763)
Luxury SUV - Lexus GX 470* (772)
Compact Pickup - Subaru Baja (753)
Full-Size Pickup - Ford F-150* (721)
Heavy Duty Pickup - GMC Sierra 2500/3500 (708)

 

[Audi Junkie]

Hundai XG 350- Radiator $387

http://catalog.drivewire.com/drivew...=HY&model=XG-350-001&category=G&part=Radiator

Water Pump- $117

http://catalog.drivewire.com/drivew...Y&model=XG-350-001&category=G&part=Water+Pump

Brake Master Cylinder- $322

http://catalog.drivewire.com/drivew...350-001&category=N&part=Brake+Master+Cylinder

Wheel Bearing- $101

http://catalog.drivewire.com/drivew...odel=XG-350-001&category=K&part=Wheel+Bearing


Alternator- $327

http://catalog.drivewire.com/drivew...Y&model=XG-350-001&category=F&part=Alternator


Strut- $97

http://catalog.drivewire.com/drivew...05&product=L4000-112256&application=000486210


Audi A4- Radiator $126

http://autohausaz.com/search/produc...=1999&cid=16@Cooling System&gid=2172@Radiator


Water Pump- $40

http://autohausaz.com/search/produc...999&cid=16@Cooling System&gid=2208@Water Pump


Brake Master Cylinder-$97

http://autohausaz.com/search/productx.aspx?sid=xi4nclifwaosva2hrpuv1cbn&makeid=800002@Audi&modelid=1352494@A4%20QUATTRO%20&year=1999&cid=14@Brake%20%26%20Wheel%20Hub&gid=1836@Brake %20Master%20Cylinder


Wheel Brearing- $35

http://autohausaz.com/search/productx.aspx?sid=xi4nclifwaosva2hrpuv1cbn&makeid=800002@Audi&modelid=1352494@A4%20QUATTRO%20&year=1999&cid=14@Brake%20%26%20Wheel%20Hub&gid=1644@Wheel %20Bearing%20Kit

Alternator- $191

http://autohausaz.com/search/productx.aspx?sid=xi4nclifwaosva2hrpuv1cbn&makeid=800002@Audi&modelid=1352494@A4%20QUATTRO%20&year=1999&cid=18@Electrical%20%26%20Vacuum&gid=2412@Alter nator

Strut-$97

http://autohausaz.com/search/productx.aspx?sid=xi4nclifwaosva2hrpuv1cbn&makeid=800002@Audi&modelid=1352494@A4%20QUATTRO%20&year=1999&cid=27@Suspension%20System&gid=7556@Shock%20Abs orber


So, which is more expensive to own?

Case closed.

[ October 11, 2005, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]

 

[TomH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
So, which is more expensive to own?

Case closed.

---

Not that I'm taking sides here, but how was this comparison anywhere near being fair? First, you are comparing parts prices from two different online parts dealers. Second, you are comparing cars that are six years apart.

To make this a little more fair, and realistic, I compared a few of the parts that you had listed with same year vehicles and at the same parts dealer. This is what I found out:

1999 Audi A4 Quattro 2.8 V6
Radiator: $161
Water Pump: $27
Master Cylinder: $59
Alternator: $161

1999 Hyundai Sonata 2.5 V6
Radiator: $145
Water Pump: $48
Master Cylinder: $43
Alternator: $154

All of these prices came from www.rockauto.com and were the lowest priced parts they offered, minus any core charges. Except for the water pump, parts for the Audi cost slighly more, but it's not enough of a difference that would prevent me from owning one over the other.

I'm not providing links to the parts, I'm feeling lazy now, and you can look them up yourselves if so inclined.

 

[jtantare]

Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I check Hyundai was a Korean manufacturer. The top 5 manufacturers listed in the article are Japanese. Did you bother to read it?

 

[TomH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jtantare:
Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I check Hyundai was a Korean manufacturer. The top 5 manufacturers listed in the article are Japanese. Did you bother to read it?

---

I'm sure he read it, I think he was pointing out that the top seven on that list all got the same rating, and Hyundai was ranked sixth.

 

[Korean_redneck]

Isn't Korea a Asian country??^^^^^

 

[TomH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Korean_redneck:
Isn't Korea a Asian country??^^^^^

---

[sarcasm] Is it? [/sarcasm]

 

[Audi Junkie]

I Googled "Hundai Parts" and that place was the first that came up. The Audi A4 parts are good up till last year, same ones. Isn't that hedious XG 350 last year's offering? So, where is the big savings on Korean cars? Parts are the same or more, labour is the same. Next joke we're going to hear the Korean parts last way longer. All because this survey concluded that Hundai owners spend less on service visits, less often. If you plug in the fact the parts and labour are the same...ok similar, that survey tells me more about the owners than the cars.

 

[cousincletus]

Let us know how you like your Hyundai at 100K miles after the automatic transmission wears out.

 

[ediamiam]

you guys crack me up.

 

[Korean_redneck]

I think you got all the facts wrong. If you googled Hundai, its probably some bad company you looked up. If you googled Hyundai.. you'll probably get some real info.

your right, it does tell you more about the owners... Audi Owners have more complaints and repairs cost more..... hmm. Been trying to tell you all along. I love my Hyundai. 100,000 Trouble free miles. well except the i messed up I.E Spindle and crap spark plug wires.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Even without the survey, I'd assume Audi owners are willing to spend more on their cars, per visit and "visit" more often than Hundai owners. Whatever percent costs more or even less to own, it's worth it. Your thread title says "Euro cars are worst", you are a bit short of showing that. All the post says is Korean cars are cheap and their owners are cheap. Personally, I have no "complaints" but there sure are a lot of complainers out there. If all you are looking for is "trouble-free miles" and cheapness, Hundai is just another car, most cars are "reliable"...KIA, Cavalier, Nissans..I have no interest in driving one of them. Audi/BMW et al are totally different cars for totally different people. I don't see those owners jumping into a Sonata, unless they were, in reality, Hundai owners at heart...just trying to be cool and had no idea what the 2 cars are all about. No real point in trying to equate cars on the opposite ends of the scale. The only commonality is money, we both spend it, and one of us drives a nice car.

 

[Willy_G]

AJ,

VW and Audi have some big problems. I won't repeat my rant, but see it here: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006406

quote:

---

Let us know how you like your Hyundai at 100K miles after the automatic transmission wears out.

---

I have never had a VW auto xmission last 100k. 1986 Golf...xmission let go at 75k. 1986 5000 turbo, transmission let go at 90k, 2001 Jetta TDI, xmission let go at 55k.

And if we are comparing prices & service, a TDI clutch job runs about $2000. Remember the old UFO brakes on the '91 200 20V TQ...for the longest time the rotors were dealer-only @ $900/ea! I can't remember the exact model, but the radiator of a particularly equipped 100 cost over $700! What does it cost to replace a heater core or blower motor in an A4?

 

[brianl703]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Korean_redneck:
What about all the Audi/Mercedes Benz/BMW owners who request a 10 year Auto Loan and can't even afford an oil change and purchase only 10 dollars worth of premium gasoline at a time? Just go to Virginia and you'll see what I mean.

---

The longest I've seen is a 7-year loan.

As far as what you see in Virginia, that sort of stuff is confined to Northern Virginia and then only because of the large Federal Government presence here.

 

[Korean_redneck]

^^^^Well, I was talking mostly in the Southern Region where alot of the Military bases are... Alot of Marines and Sailors want to Look "Cool" so they get 7-10 year loan etc...

 

[97tbird]

someone compared transmissions...

I know about 4 Hyundai owners personally, incl. my wife.
the trannies on these cars are still doing fine, without a single repair (oldest 200k miles, youngest 35k miles).

A friend of mine who bought a 99 Audi A4 had to replace the tranny at 55k...(her husband half-jokingly said that the Audi transmission was ok, but it couldn't take the brutal short-trip driving abuse due to the 100's of trips to the dealer to fix the never-ending electrical problems

 

[Audi Junkie]

I have 110k and MIL has 135k on our automatics. K_R, you think labels are all about style? Sadly, I was such a sucker an bought Polo shirts. Some are 20 years old, the material is soft, thick and the stitching has not let go. Discount brands not only look cheap, they don't last. Can't you tell the difference? It's a great analogy, the shirt that appears similar to top-quality but falls apart in a year or two of wear. (and you look like a goofus the whole time) Guess what item I'm going to compare the discount golf shirt to? Personally, I'd rather ONE nice shirt that lasts twice as long, rather than TWO that came from the set of Napoleon Dynamite and lasts half as long. How's that Member's Only jacket? Dry Clean Only , I'm sure, lol.

Oh, yeah, sure...my A4 is falling apart as I watch out the window. That's why Consumer Reports still recommends them and it's twin, the B5 Passat has been their Best Sedan for 7 or 8 years since it came out. My cousin's had nothing BUT VWs her whole life and fully abuses them. All automatics all driven in Maine winters up to 200k and donated. Rabitt, Fox, Jetta and now a Passat. The biggest repair on her older cars was new struts. Her Passat turbo needed much more maintenance than she was ready for and it bit her in the ***. Sludge, timing belt etc...but her tranny has 180k without even a fluid service! Mom has an older Passat, 10 years old and 80k, OMG, NO REPAIRS AT ALL! Odometer display was replaced under warranty. The car looks and drives like new, I'd still put it above a new Sonota. Interior is perfect and those VW seats are awesome. It's solid as a rock, more so than my car, and will probally still be on the road well after the Sonota is history, even with a 10 year head start. Sorry to say it, but you guys seem like a bunch of clueless ninnys. I'm done wasting my time on ya'll. Your'e killing me! lol.

 

[Audi Junkie]

All-New Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 Named "Best Premium Compact Car" -Smart Money Magazine

(Beating Volvo, Mazda and Acura)


http://smartmoney.com/autos/newcars/index.cfm?story=august2005

VW Jetta 2.5
The Jetta's 2.5-liter five-cylinder is rated at just 150 hp. But the Jetta's performance secret is the 170 pound-feet of torque that kick in at a low-revving 3,750 rpm, making the Jetta feel stronger pulling away from a stop than the Acura.

On the road, the Jetta's handling is crisp and precise; the suspension and chassis isolate the driver from bumps and keep the car firmly planted. The Jetta's cabin is not as quiet as the Acura's, but the difference is a modest amount of wind noise at highway speed.

The layout of controls is simple and logical — in contrast to certain other German sedans. The Jetta has numerous touches — such as wipers that automatically activate when drops hit the windshield and, in the trunk, a laptop-size storage cubby equipped with a power outlet for recharging your computer while you drive — that come as delightful surprises in a midprice car.

You can get a Jetta with a five-speed manual or, for $1,075 more, a six-speed automatic. Fuel efficiency with either is rated at 22 mpg city, 30 highway, for the gasoline engine. A 1.9-liter turbo diesel with automatic, rated at 35 mpg city and 42 highway, starts at $23,035.

The new Jetta is a thoughtfully designed car that represents a solid bargain among European compact sedans. It offers an impressive list of features for less money than the Acura TSX. But potential buyers need VW to prove that its quality sins are behind it. That argues for waiting a few months — even though VW is already offering low-rate financing and special leases.

Volkswagen Jetta 2.5
In a photo finish, our winner edges out the competition.
Base Price: $21,005
Engine: 2.5-liter in-line five-cylinder, 150 hp
Ride/Handling: *****
Int./Ext. Design:*****
Comfort/Utility: *****
Overall: *****
Comment: Solid bargain, thoughtfully designed.

 

[Korean_redneck]

Audi Junkie, I shop at Old Navy alot because they look good and there clothes are really low in price. I still have some shirts that are 5 years old in great condition. I guess its all about Brand name because yoru saying that Korean manufacturers are "Cheap" while Germans are "the best"

Just to tell you, you sound kind of immature on your post. Your telling me that Hyundai owners are cheap and don't know anything. There are many european car owners in AMerican who don't know any better except that the Logo is expensive. This is why Many european car owners can't afford "real" Maintenance or Premium gasoline. For $27,000 I rather buy a new 2006 Hyundai Azera which is a loaded Luxury car, EPA classifies it as "Large Car", then a bare bones BMW 3 series or Audi A4.

 

[Audi Junkie]

"loaded", lol.

Yes, Korea is known for it's vast automotive heritage and it's snappy dressers.

quote:

---

I rather buy a new 2006 Hyundai Azera

---

Yes, you would.

I guess a larger car with more FM presets automaticly makes it better engineered, better driving and last a much a longer. Cheapness (again) seems to be the deciding factor.

PS tell me your size, I'm sending you a nice new Polo golf shirt. I'll bet you'd wear it much more often than any of the Old Navy ones.