EV charging example costs more than it would to fill up a premium fuel car

People that live in apartments, condos, dorms, etc., or those simply traveling long distances may not have access to residential charging and will be required to use "super chargers". This will become more of an issue as electric becomes more mainstream. I don't know that it's fair to say it's inconsequential.
As many of have said, EVs work well for people with relatively short commutes who can charge at home. For that group of owners, the cost of charging at a Supercharger doesn't matter very much because we almost never charge there.

If I didn't have a place to charge (driveway, garage or at work) I'm not sure I'd want an EV.

As many of us have said, EVs make a lot of sense in specific situations. I don't think they work well everywhere for everything.
 
Think of how ludicrous what you said is. 5 miles range per hour from 115V. TEN HOURS to drive 50 miles!! Who can possibly afford to waste that kind of time?

Or, for a 14.4kWh circuit, you can add 44 miles range for maybe $6 electricity in an hour. A comparable gas car can add 44 miles range in less than 30 seconds at the pump and for less than a gallon and a half of fuel, so roughly the same cost, but 120 times faster. Plus, the “recharging” system for the gas car is ubiquitous and everywhere, and does not put any additional strain on the electrical grid.

Besides, CO2 is not, and has never been the boogeyman it’s made out to be. It is not even a primary greenhouse gas; water vapor is. Sea surface temperatures (SST), driven by solar insolation levels, have always been the primary driver of CO2. Not man made emissions. SST rise and fall based on solar activity & cloud cover levels, and CO2 tracks accordingly.
My Tesla Model 3 gets 3 or maybe 4 mph @ 115V. It gets 40+ at 240V.
The 1st thing I ask people who are considering an EV is, "How ya gonna charge? Do you have a dedicated 240V circuit available? Can your service panel accept another circuit?"

You can guess the response... It ain't pretty.
 
It's even more ludicrous because it's talking about charging it "miles", we don't move energy in miles, which is a distance measurement, and it would sound just as stupid for ICE cars. I don't put 200 miles of gas in my Grand Cherokee, that sounds ridiculous right? Because how many miles I get from the # of gallons/litres I put in the tank is a variable that depends on where I'm operating it, what the ambient conditions are, average speed...etc.

Those exact same things influence how many kWh an EV is going to use. If it's -20, 20kWh isn't going to get me the same number of miles as if it's 15C. If my average speed is 10mph, because I'm tooling around town, that's going to take me a different # of miles than if I'm doing 80mph down the highway. So how can you possibly charge in "miles" understanding that distance is a bloody variable influenced by myriad factors?
It's what people understand.
 
As many of have said, EVs work well for people with relatively short commutes who can charge at home. For that group of owners, the cost of charging at a Supercharger doesn't matter very much because we almost never charge there.

If I didn't have a place to charge (driveway, garage or at work) I'm not sure I'd want an EV.

As many of us have said, EVs make a lot of sense in specific situations. I don't think they work well everywhere for everything.

Absolutely, and I'm glad EV works well for you. But I still maintain that the cost of superchargers is not "inconsequential". It could be a big deal for a lot of people.
 
This is true if you have access to cheap residential charging. Not everyone does, however.
It's the only reason I would consider it. I'd have a hard time justifying it otherwise and my other car is a car that requires premium and gets 35mpg. That combination would keep both close in cost if only public charging was used with the rates I've seen for Superchargers.
 
I feel like people asking about the car going dead have habitual issues running out of fuel.

I can count on one hand how many times I've seen a gas light come on in a car I own in nearly 25 years of driving. I always fill up before 1/4 of a tank when possible. I've never seen the fuel warning on the GTI, but it's going in for the suction pump recall tomorrow and it's the first time it's been below 1/4 tank. I might actually see the light on the way to the dealer.
When I had my Sonata, I ran it down past E one time to see how far I could get on a tank. I remember it being somewhere in the 400-500 range, and I took a pic, but I can't find it now. Regardless, that's the only time in the last 20-25 years I intentionally took an ICE vehicle that low.
 
It's what people understand.
I know we've discussed this, but understanding kWh is no more challenging than understanding litres or gallons. "Forest Gump"ing it by trying to shoehorn in a term that's inherently a variable in this calculus and trying to employ it as as static measure is utterly moronic and there's no way my mind will be changed on that. It's like trying to measure hard drive space in JPEG's or room volume in dogs.
 
Absolutely, and I'm glad EV works well for you. But I still maintain that the cost of superchargers is not "inconsequential". It could be a big deal for a lot of people.
That's a judgement that people have to make. In our household, we have not used DCFC since a trip to DFW in July, and the savings on normal around town driving far outweigh any additional costs from the 450-500 miles we put on going to the Metroplex and back.
 
High power charging is pricier than slow charging...but it was still roughly 50% the cost of a tank of premium in my experience. With our current PHEV we only charge at home...no more charging on the road. I will pay the extra to keep my trip moving, and why we switched back from full EV.
There are no road etc taxes on electricity,,yet. Look at the taxes on a gallon of gas.
 
I know we've discussed this, but understanding kWh is no more challenging than understanding litres or gallons. "Forest Gump"ing it by trying to shoehorn in a term that's inherently a variable in this calculus and trying to employ it as as static measure is utterly moronic and there's no way my mind will be changed on that. It's like trying to measure hard drive space in JPEG's or room volume in dogs.
The difference is, Joe SixPack has used liquid measure all his life.
Beyond that, much as in an ICE vehicle, people often go by half tank, qtr tank, whatever based on what they have on the agenda. They have a general idea of fuel needs for the short term.
The same is true of EV.

I never look at kWh but I do look at the battery gauge, similar to the fuel gauge.
My uneducated guess is, the vast majority of people can explain gallons but would be stuck with kWh. How many even know it is a unit of measure? I did not until recently.
 
Just watched a documentary on EV charging & range done here in the GTA (Toronto)
in the Winter and the people that tested the EVs were frustrated by how hard it was
to find charging stations and once found how many units were out of order and that
one HAD to have a cell phone to start a charge and that some stations charged by
the Kwh (as it should) and others by how long the Car was plugged in. Also they said
there ought to be a standardize range calculation with the Heater (or A/C) Radio, Head-Lights
on at -20c as in teir experience the range was ~50% the advertised one.
They also said that when all is calculated the cost per Kwh was the same as 1L of gas,
they did not say if Reg or Premium. The other thing they said is that Tesla's stations were
the ones more likely to work most of the time.
 
People should do their homework that's all, and realize that nothing lasts forever, especially when it comes to utilities, or cheap electricity. Especially as the grid is expending to accommodate the increased demand placed upon it with the green wave.
Unless we start building nuclear like we mean it (and not to serve private data centers), we can bet on these facts:
1. Electricity will only get more expensive.
2. There will be limitations on who can run/charge what they want to at what time
3. Unplanned shortages/blackouts will become the norm rather than the exception.
 
The only vehicle that needs 5-10x battery density is the Tesla Semi and other electric class 8 trucks. Maybe HD diesel pickups would need 2 or 3x to match diesel range.

The only useful feature that would offer to passenger cars and light trucks is that it would shut up all the wiseacres like my brother in law that states he has 700 miles per fill-up in his Ram 1500 when he drives to the the beach in AL or FL. My arse doesn't have 700 miles of range, so that argument is irrelevant to me. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't have nearly that range when he's puttering around the suburbs, it's a 5.7 Hemi, so I'm pretty sure it gets 15 or worse.

Correct, an improbable 2 or 3x would be a game changer, but is still not enough to anywhere near match the power to weight of fuels. 10X would be about the minimum necessary to power an airliner on very short hauls, and orders of magnitude X for intercontinental flights.

In reality a 787 would require a multi gigawatt battery to perform a normal long range intercontinental flight. To be clear, by weight today's best batteries have 1.5% the power of Jet-A.

Or, my battery powered 787 would need a battery that weighs about 15 million pounds, with Tesla's best Gen III 4680's. That's about 30X more than the airplane's Max Gross Takeoff Weight.
 
The difference is, Joe SixPack has used liquid measure all his life.
Beyond that, much as in an ICE vehicle, people often go by half tank, qtr tank, whatever based on what they have on the agenda. They have a general idea of fuel needs for the short term.
The same is true of EV.

I never look at kWh but I do look at the battery gauge, similar to the fuel gauge.
My uneducated guess is, the vast majority of people can explain gallons but would be stuck with kWh. How many even know it is a unit of measure? I did not until recently.
Right, but you never grew up having to use it as a unit of measure in every day life, people driving an EV should be, and our kids should be taught it so that they understand it. A half state of charge, is, as you noted, the same as half a tank of gas, it's an indication of how much is "in the tank" and how far you can go on it will depend on what you plan on doing, we do that in our heads, understanding, inherently that the volume that constitutes a half tank applies to different distances able to be traveled depending on usage profile, ambient conditions and other variables, which is the same with the state of charge.

it's the same thing, people just have to adapt to it. Coming up with some idiotic measure based on a variable that doesn't accurately reflect anything hinders more than helps here.
 
That's a judgement that people have to make. In our household, we have not used DCFC since a trip to DFW in July, and the savings on normal around town driving far outweigh any additional costs from the 450-500 miles we put on going to the Metroplex and back.

It's always eye opening for guys that actually plan it out, vs those that proclaim something without showing it.

Hard to be a bigger fan of ICE than me with my toys, yet EV's are absolutely compelling in nearly every way to me.
 
Just watched a documentary on EV charging & range done here in the GTA (Toronto)
in the Winter and the people that tested the EVs were frustrated by how hard it was
to find charging stations and once found how many units were out of order and that
one HAD to have a cell phone to start a charge and that some stations charged by
the Kwh (as it should) and others by how long the Car was plugged in. .... The other thing they said is that Tesla's stations were
the ones more likely to work most of the time.
That's why you buy a Tesla. In my experience all units at all Superchargers work (the exception - one unit at one 8 unit station wasn't working on a Sunday afternoon, but there was another 8 unit Supercharger within sight). I've never had to wait. And you just plug in and your car charges. Simple as that. Tesla sends you a bill at the end of the month.

When I last used Superchargers (2 years ago) they charged by time which was how the Canadian government permitted it at the time. The rate varied by the before and after state of charge so it seemed they were approximating a rate per KW-hr. I believe Tesla charges by the KW-hr now. The rate at which you charge varies dramatically by how "full" the battery is before and after charging (it charges much faster when the battery is low).

The latest Consumer Reports even says one of the advantages of the Tesla Model 3 is "....access to the Tesla Supercharger network".

Or you could buy some other brand of EV and try to find charging stations that are working and then figure out how to make them work. Or you could just charge at home like most of us do almost all of the time.
 
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