EV Bus Disaster In North Carolina

[billt460]

Ashville, North Carolina spent millions on 5 EV busses. The program has been a complete financial disaster. It makes you wonder when people are going to wise up, and stop jumping the gun on these things. It's always easier to spend other people's money.

"Morriss told WLOS that each bus cost at least $616,000, and the city had to spend another $200,000 for the installation of each charger, another $118,000 every year to lease batteries for the buses, and nearly $45,500 annually in electric costs to charge them.

"He told WLOS that the two electric buses that are still in operation can only travel around 78 miles in the wintertime before needing to return to the shop and charge for hours.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/north-carolina-city-spent-millions-on-electric-buses-dont-run

 

[ctechbob]

Are you surprised? Asheville is the San Francisco of NC.

 

[shortyb]

Proterra here in Greenville had to seriously re-organize things when they went Chapter 11 last year due to a plethora of problems with EV buses. Phoenix Motor of CA stepped in and bought the company's transit line manufacturing and kept the doors open, while Volvo acquired the battery facility in Greer. The buses are pretty cool though, but Greenlink (local transit comp.) could purchase 5 conventionally powered Phase 3 buses for the cost of 1 Proterra with supporting equipment.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Wonder what the difference in just “break even” prices for ticket costs are between diesel and EV buses? Did Asheville even evaluate that?

 

[demarpaint]

Wonder what the difference in just “break even” prices for ticket costs are between diesel and EV buses? Did Asheville even evaluate that?

I doubt they evaluate much of anything, especially when it comes to going green. I honestly think some of these states, and businesses for that matter use the shoot first ask questions later mentality. Especially when they're spending taxpayer $$ and not their own money.

 

[billt460]

"$200,000 for the installation of each charger, another $118,000 every year to lease batteries for the buses, and nearly $45,500 annually in electric costs to charge them".

Charger cost... $200,000.00 X 5 = $1,000,000.00

Battery lease cost... $118,000.00 + $1,000,000.00 = $1,118,000.00

Electrical charging cost... $45,500.00 + $1,118,000.00 = $1,163,500.00 total

$4.25 @ gallon for Diesel divided into $1,163,500.00 = 273,764 gallons of Diesel EVERY YEAR. Say each Diesel bus gets 8 MPG. That equates to 2,190,112 miles a year.

 

[shortyb]

I doubt they evaluate much of anything, especially when it comes to going green. I honestly think some of these states, and businesses for that matter use the shoot first ask questions later mentality. Especially when they're spending taxpayer $$ and not their own money.

I think you can apply that mentality to the whole "going green" push with electric vehicles in general.

 

[billt460]

Proterra here in Greenville had to seriously re-organize things when they went Chapter 11 last year due to a plethora of problems with EV buses. Phoenix Motor of CA stepped in and bought the company's transit line manufacturing and kept the doors open, while Volvo acquired the battery facility in Greer. The buses are pretty cool though, but Greenlink (local transit comp.) could purchase 5 conventionally powered Phase 3 buses for the cost of 1 Proterra with supporting equipment.

This whole mess reminds me of Solyndra. Throwing millions of taxpayer dollars down the same rabbit hole.... All over the word, "green".

 

[shortyb]

"$200,000 for the installation of each charger, another $118,000 every year to lease batteries for the buses, and nearly $45,500 annually in electric costs to charge them".

Charger cost... $200,000.00 X 5 = $1,000,000.00

Battery lease cost... $118,000.00 + $1,000,000.00 = $1,118,000.00

Electrical charging cost... $45,500.00 + $1,118,000.00 = $1,163,500.00 total

$4.25 @ gallon for Diesel divided into $1,163,500.00 = 273,764 gallons of Diesel EVERY YEAR. Say each Diesel bus gets 8 MPG. That equates to 2,190,112 miles a year.

Now take that 2.1M travel miles, split between 10 conventional buses, multiply the revenue from fare sales and added coverage with a much greater efficiency to move people around=WIN! Too much granola up there in A-ville is clogging the neural pathways.

 

[demarpaint]

"$200,000 for the installation of each charger, another $118,000 every year to lease batteries for the buses, and nearly $45,500 annually in electric costs to charge them".

Charger cost... $200,000.00 X 5 = $1,000,000.00

Battery lease cost... $118,000.00 + $1,000,000.00 = $1,118,000.00

Electrical charging cost... $45,500.00 + $1,118,000.00 = $1,163,500.00 total

$4.25 @ gallon for Diesel divided into $1,163,500.00 = 273,764 gallons of Diesel EVERY YEAR. Say each Diesel bus gets 8 MPG. That equates to 2,190,112 miles a year.

You forgot the cost of those five busses saving the planet, "Priceless"! Kick backs perhaps? The smart money is on yes.

 

[demarpaint]

I think you can apply that mentality to the whole "going green" push with electric vehicles in general.

Absolutely, I was trying to be nice today.

 

[wemay]

Wasn't this a test to guage the feasibility of implementing the program on a wider scale?

 

[shortyb]

Absolutely, I was trying to be nice today.

I wake up and say why start now?

 

[shortyb]

Wasn't this a test to guage the feasibility of implementing the program on a wider scale?

I'm sure that was part of the intent. Right up until the financial realization part came in and crashed the party.

 

[Jetronic]

Ashville, North Carolina spent millions on 5 EV busses. The program has been a complete financial disaster. It makes you wonder when people are going to wise up, and stop jumping the gun on these things. It's always easier to spend other people's money.

"Morriss told WLOS that each bus cost at least $616,000, and the city had to spend another $200,000 for the installation of each charger, another $118,000 every year to lease batteries for the buses, and nearly $45,500 annually in electric costs to charge them.

"He told WLOS that the two electric buses that are still in operation can only travel around 78 miles in the wintertime before needing to return to the shop and charge for hours.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/north-carolina-city-spent-millions-on-electric-buses-dont-run

We had diesel heaters installed in our EV busses. Heating/cooling of the bus can double the current consumption if electric. That's on top of the naturally reduced range in the cold.

We also have fast chargzrs at one end of the bus line. takes 10-20 minutes to charge there. I could make 5 round trips on one charge if I really wanted to, but others can barely manage 2. Doesn't matter though, company rules say to charge every time you arrive at the charger.

It doesn't make financial sense to me, but sometimes that's a secondary consideration. If you need to cover a zero emissions zone or have very strict noise pollution rules an EV bus is the only option.

8 MPG as mentioned above is possible but optimistic. Depends on the driver and the route. 4-8MPG is more realistic. Still doesn't make financial sense. Oh and the drivers getting 4 MPG on the diesels are the ones getting the least range out of the battery aswell.

 

[demarpaint]

I wake up and say why start now?

Me too, but in my old age I'm really trying to change, but it's the stupidity I see and hear everyday in print and on the news that drags me back down.

 

[billt460]

You forgot the cost of those five busses saving the planet, "Priceless"! Kick backs perhaps? The smart money is on yes.

"As per the Department of Energy's 2020 report, while the cost of a new 40-foot diesel bus is $480,000, a battery electric bus costs $887,308. On top of that, cities would also have to invest in charging infrastructure. This would include purchasing, installing, operating, and maintaining the chargers.Oct 19, 2023.

EV bus cost $616,000.00 (per the Fox Business article)... New diesel bus cost $480,000.00..... $616,000.00 - $480,000.00 = $136,000.00 more for EV X 5 busses = $680,000.00 more for just 5 EV busses over Diesel.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...RiGA8ICBxAhGAoYoAHCAgUQIRifBQ&sclient=gws-wiz

 

[billt460]

Keep in mind that Asheville, North Carolina has fairly mild Winters. Play out this same scenario in Fargo, North Dakota or Duluth, Minnesota and those things wouldn't make it out of the yard, let alone to the last stop on the line, and back.

"He told WLOS that the two electric buses that are still in operation can only travel around 78 miles in the wintertime before needing to return to the shop and charge for hours.

 

[shortyb]

Me too, but in my old age I'm really trying to change, but it's the stupidity I see and hear everyday in print and on the news that drags me back down.

Amen brother.

Disclaimer: please excuse any religious connotation, off-topic content, or overall poor taste in this response. It is not my intent.

 

[demarpaint]

Keep in mind that Asheville, North Carolina has fairly mild Winters. Play out this same scenario in Fargo, North Dakota or Duluth, Minnesota and those things wouldn't make it out of the yard, let alone to the last stop on the line, and back.

"He told WLOS that the two electric buses that are still in operation can only travel around 78 miles in the wintertime before needing to return to the shop and charge for hours.

Maybe they can install diesel generators and heaters in them, along the lines of what @Jetronic mentioned so they can get them out on the roads there.