Europe's plan to fix over tourism crisis

[Bailes1992]

Are you saying more is good?

My experience is all those jobs can't afford to live there. The commute in.

Like I said, IMHO from having lived there the locals would be better off without it. You know what they say about opinions.

No, but some of these areas it's all they have and yet they're protesting against it.

And what if it works? Yay houses are cheap again, but there's no jobs to buy them.

 

[edyvw]

Are you saying more is good?

My experience is all those jobs can't afford to live there. The commute in.

Like I said, IMHO from having lived there the locals would be better off without it. You know what they say about opinions.

The question is whether that was caused by the number of hotels that provide accommodation, or Airbnb, and other factors that drove real estate prices up?
Breckenridge/Frisco area in Summit County is a very good example of that.
When COVID hit, two things happened that priced out locals and seasonal ski workers:
1. A bunch of hedge managers from NYC, Chicago, etc. decided to buy properties and escape here during the pandemic, and because. remote work, decided to stay (unfortunately).
2. Vail Resorts decided that it would be really good to get into the real estate business during the pandemic and price out their own workers out of the area. WHy? Bcs. if you treat them like cattle, they could live like one. Instead of two people in a room, why not 6? or 8? That worked so well during 20/21 season that half of ski lifts were shut down bcs. their workers were sick (they still cannot recover as a company from their blunders, and they still let people who make those decisions run the company).

So, now suddenly a bunch of high-income folks decided to move in, buy properties to live or probably rent etc. They simply priced out folks. Now, your average grocery store (King Soopers owned by Kroger) pays an entry wage of $22-24, and still struggles to find workers bcs. that wage cannot pay rent etc. in that area.

More hotels might actually lower real estate prices, as it would make airbnb places less profitable.

 

[Elkins45]

This is tangential to the main discussion, but I really don't understand the appeal of AirBnB or Verbo. Maybe it was a viable solution when it first started but now anytime I've investigated a destination the prices for even something as small as a separate room in a larger home was much more expensive than a hotel, and that's before you add in the semi-hidden "cleaning fee" that often raises the cost 2x. Add to that the inherent creepiness of sharing a house with a stranger and it loses all appeal to me.

Apparently more and more cities are banning the short-term rental of single family homes because they think it's contributing to the affordable housing problem.

 

[53' Stude]

BBC article on Europe's plan to fix over tourism crisis.

Tourism is important to the European economy, yet a growing number of locals are resenting the ever increasing number of tourists.

Article discusses ways to keep the locals happy while keeping the tourists dollars flowing.

https://bbc.com/travel/article/20250613-can-europe-beat-the-overtourism-crisis

And I thought you were going to be working from Europe soon. Rats!

 

[SC Maintenance]

This is tangential to the main discussion, but I really don't understand the appeal of AirBnB or Verbo. Maybe it was a viable solution when it first started but now anytime I've investigated a destination the prices for even something as small as a separate room in a larger home was much more expensive than a hotel, and that's before you add in the semi-hidden "cleaning fee" that often raises the cost 2x. Add to that the inherent creepiness of sharing a house with a stranger and it loses all appeal to me.

Apparently more and more cities are banning the short-term rental of single family homes because they think it's contributing to the affordable housing problem.

We use it for renting a complete home for the family. For just a room - nope, hotel it is.

Airbnb prices have gone through the roof also. They all seem to think its 2022 again. I am unsure what the occupancy rates are. Some have tried to find an algorithm to figure it out, but I don't know if anyone has been successful.

In Charleston the Airbnb is supposed to be registered, it cannot be a whole home - ie you can rent a room or a separate room in your place, but you cannot make the whole thing an airbnb. Of course no one follows these rules, and no one enforces them either.

I think we will get there. Enough locals have gotten wise to the real estate types promoting the tourism thing for their own gain.

More hotels might actually lower real estate prices, as it would make airbnb places less profitable.

I agree. Seems Charleston may be figuring that out also. As well, you can start charging occupancy fees, special taxes and all kinds of other things on a hotel that you cannot with airbnb and other stuff.

https://charlestonbusiness.com/snea...harlestons-first-waterfront-hotel-renderings/

 

[Finklejag]

Multnomah Falls 35 minutes outside of Portland, Oregon is tourist trap these days. You need to buy a timed permit to visit the falls in the summer months.

My Aunt and Uncle live near Glacier National Park, they disappear for the summer months these days since the tourism is out of control since covid.

The airbnb I used twice in Iceland has doubled in price since I last went there. I stopped using airbnb because of the daily cleaning fees. $75 a night for cleaning fees?

 

[edyvw]

This is tangential to the main discussion, but I really don't understand the appeal of AirBnB or Verbo. Maybe it was a viable solution when it first started but now anytime I've investigated a destination the prices for even something as small as a separate room in a larger home was much more expensive than a hotel, and that's before you add in the semi-hidden "cleaning fee" that often raises the cost 2x. Add to that the inherent creepiness of sharing a house with a stranger and it loses all appeal to me.

Apparently more and more cities are banning the short-term rental of single family homes because they think it's contributing to the affordable housing problem.

I don't want to say I don't understand, but definitely not my favorite.
We just got back from Vegas, a 10-day stay. We usually stay with my in-laws, but it was a family reunion, so we got an Airbnb with some of my wife's cousins from Chicago. That is OK for me.
However, the next road trip is to Chicago, and I am booking Hampton Inn suites for 5 of us. It is the same price as a small Airbnb, but there is a pool, a suite has a good kitchen (big fridge, oven, etc). separate bedroom and living room.
Hotel over airbnb for sure. But, sometimes is OK, just sometimes.

 

[Vil_Riker]

I used to live in a touristy town in the Mediterranean. You simply stayed out of the hot spots and there was a distinct division of where tourists went and where the locals went. For example, tourists went to restaurants 3-4 times as expensive as the local places and consumed sub-standard food. Locals hung around in different bars and night clubs.

Did the real estate prices go up? Yes, in places where they could build hotels. All the prime real estate were either hotels or villas for multi-millionaires from overseas. The government made sure that all the beaches were public, though.

 

[Cropduster172]

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I lived full time on Hilton Head for several years. Live near Charleston now. I lived in one other Tourist town briefly. This statement is patently false. Your assuming a few wealthy business owners that provide minimum wage seasonal jobs to some kids is useful. A lot of those business owners don't live there at all, whether there corporate or not. Most of the restaurants on HHI are owned by a couple different individuals that don't even live in the state. The hotels are all corporate. The house rentals are mostly owned by property management type companies / investors not locals.

No real economy can develop because the place is over-run. Possibly the original residents don't care to have those kinds of jobs and are forced out. You can't afford to live in any of these places on a seasonal income - at least anymore.

I live now in Charleston. There trying, to some degree successfully, to get out from under the "tourism" thing which was never really needed here anyway.

Your example is Hilton Head, which is the exception not the rule.
The very name is indicative of corporate ownership. It's a different ballgame in many other coastal locations in the Mid Atlantic and Northeast. Tourism is an industry from VA-Maine and it drives businesses, big and small and employs millions direct or indirectly.


Tourism as a percentage of state economy:
VA=3.1
MD=6.1
DE=5
NJ=2.9
NY=7.2
NH=3.2
MA=3
VT=10
ME=6.4

 

[D60]

I used to live in a touristy town in the Mediterranean. You simply stayed out of the hot spots and there was a distinct division of where tourists went and where the locals went. For example, tourists went to restaurants 3-4 times as expensive as the local places and consumed sub-standard food. Locals hung around in different bars and night clubs.

This has been my experience growing up all my life in a Colorado tourist town.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Your example is Hilton Head, which is the exception not the rule.
The very name is indicative of corporate ownership.

Hilton Head Island was named after English Sea Captain William Hilton in 1663, after he surveyed it. So if thats your idea of corporate ownership.

 

[edyvw]

Since we are on the tourism topic and how to control it:

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I don't want to say I don't understand, but definitely not my favorite.
We just got back from Vegas, a 10-day stay. We usually stay with my in-laws, but it was a family reunion, so we got an Airbnb with some of my wife's cousins from Chicago. That is OK for me.
However, the next road trip is to Chicago, and I am booking Hampton Inn suites for 5 of us. It is the same price as a small Airbnb, but there is a pool, a suite has a good kitchen (big fridge, oven, etc). separate bedroom and living room.
Hotel over airbnb for sure. But, sometimes is OK, just sometimes.

WSOP (Late May-Mid July) makes LV AiRBnB expensive with the euro players who come over for a couple of weeks.

 

[Cropduster172]

Hilton Head Island was named after English Sea Captain William Hilton in 1663, after he surveyed it. So if thats your idea of corporate ownership.

Fun fact. Tourism is 10% of SC economy...more than any of the others I listed previously. Imagine.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

This is tangential to the main discussion, but I really don't understand the appeal of AirBnB or Verbo. Maybe it was a viable solution when it first started but now anytime I've investigated a destination the prices for even something as small as a separate room in a larger home was much more expensive than a hotel, and that's before you add in the semi-hidden "cleaning fee" that often raises the cost 2x. Add to that the inherent creepiness of sharing a house with a stranger and it loses all appeal to me.

Apparently more and more cities are banning the short-term rental of single family homes because they think it's contributing to the affordable housing problem.

Thousands of people want to build a portfolio of investment properties and these sites make it easy to rent them out.

 

[edyvw]

WSOP (Late May-Mid July) makes LV AiRBnB expensive with the euro players who come over for a couple of weeks.

There is always something in Vegas, though June-October is generally cheaper.
But Vegas tourism numbers are in drastic decline, so things this year were much cheaper. On the other hand, I have already had to lower the price of the rental units I have there twice since February. It is a really bleak economic environment.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Fun fact. Tourism is 10% of SC economy...more than any of the others I listed previously. Imagine.

Yes, and half is in Charleston. It can go away tomorrow for all most of us care.

 

[edyvw]

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Your example is Hilton Head, which is the exception not the rule.
The very name is indicative of corporate ownership. It's a different ballgame in many other coastal locations in the Mid Atlantic and Northeast. Tourism is an industry from VA-Maine and it drives businesses, big and small and employs millions direct or indirectly.


Tourism as a percentage of state economy:
VA=3.1
MD=6.1
DE=5
NJ=2.9
NY=7.2
NH=3.2
MA=3
VT=10
ME=6.4

There are different measurements.
Tourism contributes 3% to CO GDP. But if you add: tourism and recreation it is 13.7%.

 

[Cropduster172]

There are different measurements.
Tourism contributes 3% to CO GDP. But if you add: tourism and recreation it is 13.7%.

That makes sense to me...mostly skiing but hunting, fishing, boating, camping.

 

[edyvw]

That makes sense to me...mostly skiing but hunting, fishing, boating, camping.

However, a more accurate measurement would be 13.7%, considering that 70% of the North American ski industry is based in Colorado.