European pickup trucks

[Number21]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Why do you need to defend your choice?

Because there are clueless folks trying to say trucks are useless and nobody who drives a truck actually uses it. Those are both wrong.

Try this with a Jetta:

If I was in the UK I'd have to go rent a van or a trailer for $20 worth of pallets....

 

[Silk]

Still on the defence, you are really trying to talk the world around to your point of view. Does the world really care? Not in the slightest.

 

[Number21]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Still on the defence, you are really trying to talk the world around to your point of view. Does the world really care? Not in the slightest.

So when somebody makes an asinine comment like this I'm not allowed to defend myself? Quite frankly I wasn't talking to you.

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
The actual height of the truck bed is another blatantly obvious that it's for show rather than work. So many are chest high...you know the clods that are driving them aren't loading anything in there...LOL

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Why do you need to defend your choice?


I don't understand the question. If we aren't able to defend our choice, then wasn't the choice the wrong one?

I know at the moment I have an oversized truck simply because I thought it fit my needs. 4 doors, RWD, decent ground clearance, decent cargo space. Sounds something similar to the bygone station wagons, really. Or perhaps RWD minivans. Things that don't seem to exist anymore in the US. I'm not sure that my PU gets any worse mpg than those vehicles did in similar usage.

I'd be fine using a more "Euro" vehicle for my needs, but for some reason they are rated very low in towing in the US. After using my diesel VW station (which I'm pretty sure is about as Euro as it gets) I came to the conclusion that, regardless of how it's rated "over there" over here the 1,500lb tow rating is probably true. How it can be vastly different between countries is beyond me.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Mine had the following: the Carbon Build up twice, injector wiring harness and glow plug wiring harness issue. I had to replace the auto transmission at 35,000 miles, 2 sets of front wheel bearings, 4 neutral park safety switches, 1 set of glow plugs and bunch of stupid little things, mostly electrical. The interior stuff would not have bothered me if it had been more reliable. We gave up at 80,000 miles and bought an 03 CTS. 156,000 miles. Water pump, brakes, timing belt and 1 02 sensor. I should have kept it but the wife wanted the 07 Equinox we had.



The new VW stuff, especially the diesels,does look pretty promising though. Way off topic now.


I hear you. I think I got in at the exact right time: the later PD engines ate camshafts (mine hasn't), the earlier engines were not quite as refined, had some lifter/follower issues, and certainly had plugging problems. The current models have gotten much larger (probably a good thing, mine has a tiny backseat) and don't pull off the same mpg. ULSD did wonders for the carboning issue. Today I'm waiting to see just how well the latest and greatest emissions devices hold out.

I've done, hmm, front wheel bearings, struts/shocks, EGR work (broken pipe), rear calipers, intake flap twice ($500 each time), clutch, turbo, electric fuel pump, front struts a second time. I did have the glowplugs replaced but technically they were still working (just old, and of the failure prone ceramic type). Right now it's got something unspecified wrong with the engine (probably MAF although who knows), it has blown blue smoke at cold start for years, and technically has a bent rear axle from goons who can't lift cars properly (probably easily fixed with some shims but still). And the HVAC temp control is prone to falling out. I also fixed four rust holes in the body, but that's a temporary fix. Seems it has held up about as well as a domestic, albeit at 2x the repair cost, albeit with a fuel savings cost.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Mine had the following: the Carbon Build up twice, injector wiring harness and glow plug wiring harness issue. I had to replace the auto transmission at 35,000 miles, 2 sets of front wheel bearings, 4 neutral park safety switches, 1 set of glow plugs and bunch of stupid little things, mostly electrical. The interior stuff would not have bothered me if it had been more reliable. We gave up at 80,000 miles and bought an 03 CTS. 156,000 miles. Water pump, brakes, timing belt and 1 02 sensor. I should have kept it but the wife wanted the 07 Equinox we had.



The new VW stuff, especially the diesels,does look pretty promising though. Way off topic now.


Seems it has held up about as well as a domestic


We can agree to disagree on that. I didn't get this car until I met my wife. Until that point I drove Mopars and GMs. The Jetta was the worst car I ever owned hands down. I have not done that much work to any car I have owned. In fact the 3 3800 cars I owned combined have not required that much work.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: supton
Seems it has held up about as well as a domestic, albeit at 2x the repair cost, albeit with a fuel savings cost.


I know you guys already know this, but all of these are singular data points, and experiences obviously vary tremendously, even among people who have owned "the same car". Your Jetta held up about as well as our second Cadillac did (a 2001 STS) or our second Mopar minivan (a 2007 Chrysler). In fact, neither of them made it to 100,000 in our household (we sold the Chrysler with just 40k on it). We couldn't trust them. The Cadillac had a new engine, new transmission, new exhaust system, various struts replaced, various electronics replaced, and it was still flaky when we owned it. Simply couldn't count on it. We bought it with 58k on it (and all of that work was done prior to that) and sold it with something like 70k on it. Our Chrysler was a real piece of work, and we sold it with about 40k on it simply because I saw the writing on that wall with that one.

But man, I've owned some really good domestic vehicles. My first car was an '84 Cutlass, built during Detroit's "worst days", but it was a real peach. Our 2003 Grand Caravan was also pretty good. Should have kept it instead of trading it on the Chrysler! I also owned a '97 Dodge Dakota that was really good. Really good. Might should have kept that. And our '97 Cadillac SLS was also fantastic.

It's ironic...the trend for domestic automakers is that they've gotten seriously better in that last decade or so, but I've had the worst luck with the newest ones I've owned. The older domestics treated me much better. Or at least, the "sequels" have been problematic for me. '97 Cad was great, replaced it with an '01 which was not. '03 Dodge was great, replaced it with an '07 which was not.

I've never owned anything European. Based on my experience with a friend's 2000 BMW X5 and now a 2005 Audi A4, I likely won't ever. But I have to recall: those are singular data points, and they don't necessarily represent a trend.

 

[expat]

What about those Utes that have always been popular Down under?

I wonder why they have never really cought on else where.

Yes, there was the El Camino and Rancho,there was also a small FWD Dodge Charger ute back in the 80's, but they never seem to have been as popular as in Oz or NZ

Any insight as to why?

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Number21

If I was in the UK I'd have to go rent a van or a trailer for $20 worth of pallets....


I lived in the U.K for many years, and I can honestly say I never owned a pallet!

Now I'm not being sarcastic, because this is the heart of the matter,
Life in Europe is different! Not worse, Not Better, Different!
As a result (and I admit I'm generalizing here) people solve problems in different ways.

If you came to the UK and tried to live like you do in the US, you would find life very difficult and frustrating, just as I did at the age of 24 when I moved to North America.
(I also complained that I could never get a decent Cup of Tea)

Here, now, I do have some pallets and 'Stuff' stored on them. I also own a PU truck (and drink coffee)

 

[gman2304]

Boy this thread has been all over the place! I like it! Since I'm the OP I think my question has been answered. Big honkin pick up trucks aren't practical in europe. I think a lot of it has to do with the size of the US as opposed to most western european countries... as well as the price of 'petrol'. I would have thought that the Japanese mfgs would have the market cornered in the EU with small diesel made to fit pick ups. I've seen these types of trucks in the middle east, on the news mostly. They make what seems to be a good platform for mounting a 50 cal in the bed and are quite mobile as well. Thanks

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
Boy this thread has been all over the place! I like it! Since I'm the OP I think my question has been answered. Big honkin pick up trucks aren't practical in europe. I think a lot of it has to do with the size of the US as opposed to most western european countries... as well as the price of 'petrol'. I would have thought that the Japanese mfgs would have the market cornered in the EU with small diesel made to fit pick ups. I've seen these types of trucks in the middle east, on the news mostly. They make what seems to be a good platform for mounting a 50 cal in the bed and are quite mobile as well. Thanks


Oh they exist, Top Gear did a famous skit where they tried to destroy one.
Just that, unless you are a small farm owner (and there are not many of those)
Why would you need one.
Besides Mounting a 50 cal in your truck is frowned upon over there.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: expat
What about those Utes that have always been popular Down under?

I wonder why they have never really cought on else where.

Yes, there was the El Camino and Rancho,there was also a small FWD Dodge Charger ute back in the 80's, but they never seem to have been as popular as in Oz or NZ

Any insight as to why?


I don't know why the El Camino went away. Maybe the sales numbers weren't as high as the actual vehicle popularity. Maybe they didn't want to try to make a FWD version from the W-body (that probably wouldn't have sold well anyway)

Volkswagen and Subaru also made mini-trucks. But it was a bad time to do it. You could buy a base Jeep Comanche, Mazda B-series, or Isuzu pickup for less than they could sell the car based pickups.

 

[Silk]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Silk
Why do you need to defend your choice?


I don't understand the question.


The original question was why Europeans didn't drive huge pickups, not why Americans do - it got turned around somewhere....and I find all the justification as to why a bit strange.

 

[Shannow]

Silk...am at a loss as well

One thing 'though is the "rating systems" that are used are different.

My Nissan is "rated" to carry a tonne, and tow 3.5...a 1 ton US pick-up in comparison is a monster.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Pick up truck is a joke. You can use hatchbacks/wagons/vans and still carry lots of stuff inside. If it doesn't fit inside, then you can tow with almost any car. American pickups are symbols of wastefulness. I'm not even going into redneck stuff.


Yeah, my F150 is a complete waste. It's used to carry ATV's and dirt bikes to my vacation property. It's used for work to carry large aircraft parts to and from various airports. It's used to support my "farms" property on a daily basis. From hay, to gravel, tools, to aircraft engines and propellers. It hauls all of it.

And there is no way a trailer is better for such jobs. Having a capable pickup truck makes work easy.

 

[bar1]

Pickup trucks aren't that popular here, two exceptions, farmers and use in construction.

Popular pickups, vans, trucks etc.:

Ford: Transit (lots of models), Ranger, http://www.ford.no/Varebiler

MB: Vito, Sprinter, Vitan, http://www.mercedes-benz.no/content/norway

Mitsubishi: L200, Pajero, http://www.mitsubishi-motors.no/home.aspx

Opel: Combo, Vivaro, Movano, http://www.opel.no/

Nissan: NV200, NV400, Primastar, Navara, Pathfinder, http://www.nissan.no/#vehicles/lcv/NV200_VAN

Peugeot: Partner, Expert, Boxer, http://www.peugeot.no/varebiler-showrooms/

Renault: Kangoo, Traffic, Master, http://renault.no/varebiler

Toyota: Land Cruiser, Hilux, Proace, Dyna http://www.toyota.no/#car-menu-dropdown

VW: Caddy, Crafter, Amarok, Transporter, Multivan, http://www.volkswagen-nyttekjoretoy.no/no/models.html

 

[expat]

Back in early 70's I visited the U.S. and stayed with a U.S. family.
The family had a Chevy Parkwood station wagon, Lime green metallic, Green vinyl roof, fake wood side panels the whole Griswold thing.
I was quite fascinated by this, I was a bit of a motorhead but had never seen anything of this sort in Europe. I asked a lot about it, it had a 400 cubic inch V8, I did not know what that was in cc but later learned it was 6.5 Liters

I had driven a 1 ton van in the UK and that had a 2 liter engine, this was over 3 times bigger. I did not understand.
It had three row seating covered in about 1/2 and acre of green Naugahyde that smelt bad in the hot sun. the owner showed me how the seat had many servos that adjusted rake, height, reach etc. He boasted that he could get an 8x4 sheet of ply in the back AND close the tailgate! My thoughts were "Why would you do that?"
He was very proud of the car, but honestly, I didn't get it.

One night I was told we were going to a Drive in movie, I asked what the film was, but it seemed nobody was really sure?
When we set off for the movie, 4 other kids from the neighborhood joined us, some with sleeping bags??
At the movie three of the kids climbed on the car roof with there sleeping bags, others kept coming and going buying food etc. everyone was talking, and I was getting a bit up tight because I could not follow the movie.
But then it dawned on me that the movie was real garbage (as far as the story was concerned) and it did not matter if you missed scenes or not.
I was very confused, I did not understand.

The thing is, I did not understand the CULTURE, I saw the world through the eyes of someone from the UK and many things did not make sense.

He thought our cars were 'Dinky' (his words) and (i think) assumed we drove Small cars because we could not afford Big cars (something that kind of offended me)

I guess HE did not understand OUR culture either

 

[Silk]

I've had a few vehicles over the years, cars, trucks, vans, 4x4s, station wagons and motorcycles, some with sidecars. The handiest was a 1987 Ford Escort van, it was my workshop hack, but also my personal runabout. A good load space, twin doors, open one for small things, both for big things, pick out things inside from the drivers seat. I could even fit my trials motorcycle in the back. I used to use an RL Bedford as my shop hack 30 years ago - only a 2 seater and bigger than any American pickup...but no one in a small car died from my macho ride.

 

[Number21]

Originally Posted By: expat
I lived in the U.K for many years, and I can honestly say I never owned a pallet!

You're missing the point. It's just a trivial little product of life I have to move around. Look how quickly they fill up my truck. I couldn't put even one in a car. Surely there are items like that in Europe. Maybe everything gets delivered over there but it's still easier to just do it yourself.

I really feel sorry for other people, often Americans, that own nothing besides a car. I don't understand how they get by in life. Think of how many large heavy items a typical middle class person owns - furniture, appliances, etc. I would hate to always have to rely on other people to move that stuff around. And then the fact that you can never go on any sort of road trip or vacation comfortably with more than one person. And no, you can't borrow my pickup.

I'm not trying to tell you how to do things, I'm just explaining why we do it the way we do. If that's what they want to do in Europe, have at it! But don't judge me and my truck!

Originally Posted By: Silk
I used to use an RL Bedford as my shop hack 30 years ago - only a 2 seater and bigger than any American pickup...but no one in a small car died from my macho ride.

So I guess nobody over there has any auto accidents either?

 

[OVERKILL]

My family of 5 goes on plenty of vacations and road trips comfortably in my car.....

It's a lot cheaper than taking the Expedition.

If we need to take the dog, of course we take the truck, LOL!