Euro oil spec thats better than dexos 1/r?

[chris719]

Gotta admit, this is the best troll job we’ve seen in a long time.

 

[siriusc1024]

1) If the numbers don't line up with the result then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate your approach.

I already described that Quaker State Synthetic (Dex) has better temp stability (pressure gauge, temp gauge) and less wear (drainplug magnet) than Mobil 1 Euro FS (non-Dex) in my LS1 (GM). What more is there to say? Predictably, everyone here is throwing a fit about it.

2) There is no best oil.

Is there something for me to gain with my apparently inflammatory report? How about in running an inferior oil? Even the boutique oils are cheaper than a tank of gas. My engine likes it better. I used to run the Euro FS, but I found something better. Even non-Ultimate Pennzoil Platinum worked better. I'm not saying QS works better in another engine. I'm saying it works better in mine.

3) Stick to the specs.

Anything else is experimentation. YOU tell me the data that contradicts the OEM recommendations. I'm talking results. I can read specs, and so can you. It's already been proven for me. Nobody here can possibly run as thorough tests as the fleet of engineers who design the engines and specify the oil formulations.

Yes, and most of those requirements are met by that oil. So how is it superior to dexosR, if they are the same oil? It's not.

- Euro isn't superior.

Now, I'll demonstrate that just because, in the particular instance of Mobil ESP X4 0w-40 vs Mobil 1 Supercar 0w-40, you see something like A40 there doesn't mean that it's your que to put any A40 in your GM vehicle.

First, there's GM's recommendation. GM hasn't approved other oils to perform to their standards in their engines. As you can see it's a short list:

View attachment 279665

Second is this. I was in Walmart today and had a look around. I went in to grab some Gulf Wax to change O2 sensors, but I checked out the oil section while I was there.

Got looking around at Mobil's lineup, read through the various specs, and compared. Then I had the thought to look at others. I came across Supertech's Euro 0w-40. Meets all the strict requisite approvals; however, I noticed something out of the ordinary. It's an SN oil. Thought maybe this was old stock, but copyright on the label is 2024. Not old stock, and the current listing online matches.

View attachment 279666

Turbocharged Gasoline Direct Injection engines aren't uncommon. One of the features of these engines is the use of low tension piston rings. When API advanced from SN to SP, one of the requirements was reduction of risk of LSPI. LSPI happens on these TDI engines because the low tension rings are more likely to allow oil into the combustion chamber. Oil in the combustion chamber, high compression, and boost all contribute to LSPI. API itself says it matters.

To all those people out there who do have a TDI engine, and there are many:
A40 SP isn't A40 SN, but they're both A40.
MB229.5 SP isn't MB229.5 SN, but they're both MB229.5

- Euro isn't Euro.

What allows a particular oil to meet multiple specs is the formulation. Just because one brand has cross-compatibility doesn't mean that it necessarily extends to all oils for the listed specs. Not all A40's have the same formulation.

Stricter spec is not the correct perspective because it's meaningless as a comparison. The specs are strictly targeted to the application. That needs to be understood.

Post #4 asking about the application was the best response. When someone asks which oil they should use please consider their application in detail. It's important. Work from there. Otherwise, stick to the spec.

Euro isn't better. Euro isn't Euro. There's nothing more I feel the need to say on this, as the supporting evidence is sufficient.

I'm 100% serious. Nothing I've said contradicts the auto manufacturers or oil companies.

I've been consistent from start to end. Again, I'll point out how the detractors against good sense have been chaperoned from "run only Euro" to "it doesn't matter what oil" and back again. I see how that can be viewed as trolling, but that's not my intention.

There's really nothing to be upset about here.

 

[edyvw]

I'm 100% serious. Nothing I've said contradicts the auto manufacturers or oil companies.

I've been consistent from start to beginning. Trolls typically bounce around just trying to keep people mad.

There's really nothing to be upset about here.

True.

 

[siriusc1024]

True.

Haha yeah.

 

[siriusc1024]

Now to conclude against the opponents. I've pointed this out already, but here it is to reinforce.

edyvw, this comes from your, uh, fellow scientists at the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers:

"Our view is that there are consequences for this added complexity as OEM needs diverge and it will become increasingly difficult to have a ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach."

https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...ce Needed to Meet GF-5_tlt article_Sept10.pdf

That article was published way back in 2010. It's been past time to...

1) If the numbers don't line up with the result then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate your approach.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I changed the fluid with Valvoline CVT that is NS-3 compliant (also dyed green), which is the spec.

Got it. The green dye is what makes it magic

And Blackstone is the paragon of accuracy.

 

[siriusc1024]

Got it. The green dye is what makes it magic

And Blackstone is the paragon of accuracy.

Dude what is the matter with you? The green dye is what makes it so that if it happens to go into the dealership they can't void the warranty. NS-3 is dyed green for visual inspection. If they see something else in there it's marked against the vehicle.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Dude what is the matter with you? The green dye is what makes it so that if it happens to go into the dealership they can't void the warranty. NS-3 is dyed green for visual inspection. If they see something else in there it's marked against the vehicle.

Green dye is now the warranty determinant for NS-3? Got it.

But you didn’t use NS-3, you used Valvoline CVT, which is only recommended for NS-3 applications, not approved. So follow the manufacturer for oil recommendations but you can Willy-nilly choose any trans fluid that claims to be suitable? Just making sure we know your position. Got it.

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/89a43c74-e29c-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3

Determining which lubricant manufacturers carry official Nissan approval for NS-3 CVT fluid is challenging because Nissan does not publicly disclose a comprehensive list of approved suppliers, and the available information is limited or ambiguous. Based on the provided references and critical analysis, here’s what can be established:

- **Nissan’s Official Stance**: Nissan strongly recommends using only Genuine Nissan CVT Fluid NS-3 for its Continuously Variable Transmissions (CVTs) that require NS-3 specifications. This fluid is typically manufactured by Nissan or under license by approved suppliers to ensure compatibility and performance. Using non-approved fluids can void warranties and potentially damage the transmission due to the specific frictional and viscosity requirements of Nissan’s CVT systems.[](https://carfluidcare.com/nissan-cvt-fluid-ns-3-equivalent/)[](https://www.nissanclub.com/threads/synthetic-cvt-transmission-fluid.398842/)[](https://www.z1motorsports.com/auto-transmission/nissan/nissan-ns-cvt-automatic-transmission-fluid-p-32429.html)

- **Idemitsu as a Potential OEM Supplier**: There is evidence suggesting that Idemitsu Lubricants may be an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) for Nissan’s NS-3 CVT fluid. Idemitsu’s CVTF Type N3 is engineered to meet the requirements of Nissan/Infiniti CVTs with NS-3 specifications, and some sources indicate that Idemitsu supplies the fluid that Nissan brands as its own. However, there is no definitive confirmation from Nissan or Idemitsu that Idemitsu’s product carries official Nissan approval as a branded alternative.[](https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/product/cvtf-type-n3)[](https://www.justanswer.com/nissan/jh47u-manufacturer-makes-nissan-ns3-cvt-oil-i-m-trying.html)[](https://oilsadvisor.com/nissan-cvt-fluid-ns-2-and-ns-3-alternative/)

- **Lack of Explicit Approval for Other Brands**: Several lubricant manufacturers, such as Valvoline, Castrol, Amsoil, Eneos, Aisin, and Mobil, produce CVT fluids labeled as “compatible with” or “suitable for” Nissan NS-3 specifications. However, none of these brands are explicitly identified as carrying official Nissan approval. These fluids are marketed as equivalents, often at lower costs, but their use may risk warranty issues or transmission performance problems, as Nissan emphasizes the unique formulation of its NS-3 fluid. For example:
- Valvoline’s CVT fluid and Castrol’s Transmax Universal ATF/CVT are noted as NS-3 compatible, with users reporting successful use, but no official Nissan endorsement is mentioned.[](https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...hfindertalk.com/threads/cvt-fluid-type.42173/)
- Amsoil Synthetic CVT Fluid and Eneos CVT Fluid are also cited as NS-3 compatible, but again, there’s no evidence of Nissan’s approval.[](https://www.nissanclub.com/threads/best-cvt-ns3-transmission-fluid-to-use-2020-rogue-2-5-l-fwd.528436/)[](https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/which-brand-ns3-atf-for-new-nissan-cvt.342057/)
- Mobil CVT Fluid is suitable for NS-3 applications based on testing, but it lacks explicit Nissan approval.[](https://www.mobil.com/en-cn/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/ap-zh-mobil-cvt-fluid)
- Aisin’s ATF-NS3 is mentioned as a compatible option, but no official Nissan approval is confirmed.[](https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/which-brand-ns3-atf-for-new-nissan-cvt.342057/)

- **Critical Considerations**: The proprietary nature of Nissan’s NS-3 fluid formulation, which includes specific friction modifiers and low-viscosity properties, makes it risky to assume that “compatible” fluids meet Nissan’s exact standards. Some forum discussions and user experiences suggest that aftermarket fluids perform well, but others, including Nissan technicians, warn against mixing or using non-OEM fluids due to potential transmission damage. Additionally, Nissan’s warranty policies incentivize the use of their branded fluid to avoid disputes over transmission failures.[](https://www.nissanforums.com/threads/nissan-cvt-fluid-ns2-ns3.234145/)[](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/hk87of/does_anyone_have_experience_with_this_ns3_cvt/)[](https://www.nissanclub.com/threads/synthetic-cvt-transmission-fluid.398842/)

**Conclusion**: The only lubricant manufacturer with a strong indication of being an approved supplier for Genuine Nissan NS-3 CVT fluid is Idemitsu, as it is likely the OEM supplier for Nissan’s branded fluid. However, no definitive public documentation confirms that Idemitsu’s CVTF Type N3 carries official Nissan approval for retail use under its own brand. Other manufacturers like Valvoline, Castrol, Amsoil, Eneos, Aisin, and Mobil offer NS-3-compatible fluids, but none are explicitly approved by Nissan. To ensure warranty compliance and transmission reliability, using Genuine Nissan NS-3 CVT fluid is recommended unless Nissan provides explicit approval for an alternative. For further clarification, contacting Nissan or Idemitsu directly is advisable.[](https://www.justanswer.com/nissan/jh47u-manufacturer-makes-nissan-ns3-cvt-oil-i-m-trying.html)

 

[siriusc1024]

Green dye is now the warranty determinant for NS-3? Got it.

But you didn’t use NS-3, you used Valvoline CVT, which is only recommended for NS-3 applications, not approved. So follow the manufacturer for oil recommendations but you can Willy-nilly choose any trans fluid that claims to be suitable? Just making sure we know your position. Got it.

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/89a43c74-e29c-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3

Ah, the semantics game. My position is unimpeachable.

NS-3 is the spec. Valvoline PDS shows it to meet the spec. The PDS also says it will not void the warranty.

Compare this to Mobil 1:

What the limited warranty does not cover

"Situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by ExxonMobil without written approval from ExxonMobil."
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...l-limited-warranties/mobil-1-limited-warranty

Both companies are governed by the same basic rule. Screw up and lose money. They both do their research and testing to be sure of what they recommend.

 

[M56959]

Enough.