Euro oil spec thats better than dexos 1/r?

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siriusc1024 said:
It's not something that I haven't seen. I picked those two oils as a comparison for a reason. I asked for further precision in your answer so that there was no ambiguity about it. They are equivalent.

DexosR isn't a less strict spec or an under-performing spec. Which Euro spec is better than dexosR? "Most of them." (+11 in agreement as of writing). No, no. Very few, actually.

It's like a knee-jerk reaction. Euro is better. Euro isn't even "Euro". There are categories within. We've been over 508 00 vs 504 00, and how 508 is even dyed green to make it apparent to use the right oil. Whereas dexosR "engine oils meet or exceed the performance of GM dexos 2 and GM dexos 1 Gen 2 and Gen 3 oils and are backward compatible," the same cannot be said for 508 00 with respect to previous revisions.

Mobil ESP X4 0w-40 has the approvals:
Porsche C40
VW 511 00
Porsche A40
MB-Approval 229.52
MB-Approval 229.51

There's also:
"Mobil 1â„¢ ESP X4 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring a C30 or C20. ***
Mobil 1â„¢ ESP X4 0W-40 cannot be used in Porsche GT engines. There is a separate Mobil 1 product for GT engines, MOBIL 1â„¢ C40 GT 0W-40.

You have to do your research when deviating from spec, if you can even call it deviating here for the engines that require dexosR. In this instance, you have enough information to make an informed decision. Certainly, it's possible to find advantages. It's also possible to do more harm than good, as evidenced by GM's specific LSPI tests (hence not all equivalent oils have the cert).
Click to expand...
MB229.5, MB229.51/52, BMW LL01/04, VW502.00, VW511.00, VW504.00/507.00, Porsche A/C40.
They all have stricter requirements to get approval.
 
chris719 said:
Dexos2 got effectively split into R for gasoline engines and D for diesel in the last update. Corvette and Camaro oil was dexos2 and became R overnight. Manuals went from dexos2 to R in the next print.

From GM / Mobil page:


This has all been covered at length in many places.

Again, note that dexos2 was already Euro oil (it is based on ACEA C3). GM now states:



So, as you now see, since dexosR is a variant Euro spec off C3 just like BMW LL-04 or similar, and GM themselves say it is both superior and backward compatible with dexos1 G2/3, GM has answered your question and told you exactly what I said. Euro oil is better and even for a Cruze that specified dexos1 Gen 2.
Click to expand...
I already covered some of this for him earlier in the thread, including listing some of the dexos tests that are actually Euro OEM tests from VW and Mercedes in both dexos1 and dexos2 when he was claiming Euro engine tests had no relevance to approvals from non-Euro marques.
 
siriusc1024 said:
It's not something that I haven't seen. I picked those two oils as a comparison for a reason. I asked for further precision in your answer so that there was no ambiguity about it. They are equivalent.

DexosR isn't a less strict spec or an under-performing spec. Which Euro spec is better than dexosR? "Most of them." (+11 in agreement as of writing). No, no. Very few, actually.

It's like a knee-jerk reaction. Euro is better. Euro isn't even "Euro". There are categories within. We've been over 508 00 vs 504 00, and how 508 is even dyed green to make it apparent to use the right oil. Whereas dexosR "engine oils meet or exceed the performance of GM dexos 2 and GM dexos 1 Gen 2 and Gen 3 oils and are backward compatible," the same cannot be said for 508 00 with respect to previous revisions.

Mobil ESP X4 0w-40 has the approvals:
Porsche C40
VW 511 00
Porsche A40
MB-Approval 229.52
MB-Approval 229.51

There's also:
"Mobil 1â„¢ ESP X4 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring a C30 or C20. ***
Mobil 1â„¢ ESP X4 0W-40 cannot be used in Porsche GT engines. There is a separate Mobil 1 product for GT engines, MOBIL 1â„¢ C40 GT 0W-40.

You have to do your research when deviating from spec, if you can even call it deviating here for the engines that require dexosR. In this instance, you have enough information to make an informed decision. Certainly, it's possible to find advantages. It's also possible to do more harm than good, as evidenced by GM's specific LSPI tests (hence not all equivalent oils have the cert).
Click to expand...
C20/C30 would not be backward compatible because these approvals are not only based on HTHS but by grade. Also, oil companies cannot deviate from the spec recommended by the automaker. Until wider adoption for 20 grades you would find different grades for the same vehicle in different countries.
 
Glenda W. said:
So you’re saying you know more than the engineers that designed and tested the cvt?
Click to expand...
Oh got me. Yeah they recommend 60k. Except the vehicle itself made me aware that it needed changed. The engineers that designed and tested set the monitoring and thresholds...

After 20k there was slight shudder. It threw a code for the CVT that's tied to fluid condition. I changed the fluid with Valvoline CVT that is NS-3 compliant (also dyed green), which is the spec. Code went away. So every 3 oil changes is every 15k. I do this because a drain/fill is only 3 qts.
 
siriusc1024 said:
Oh got me. Yeah they recommend 60k. Except the vehicle itself made me aware that it needed changed. The engineers that designed and tested set the monitoring and thresholds...

After 20k there was slight shudder. It threw a code for the CVT that's tied to fluid condition. I changed the fluid with Valvoline CVT that is NS-3 compliant (also dyed green), which is the spec. Code went away. So every 3 oil changes is every 15k. I do this because a drain/fill is only 3 qts.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the dark side😂. I don’t blame you one bit. On my Subaru I do 30k cvt services instead of lifetime….another one of my deviations from factory recommendations.
 
edyvw said:
MB229.5, MB229.51/52, BMW LL01/04, VW502.00, VW511.00, VW504.00/507.00, Porsche A/C40.
They all have stricter requirements to get approval.
Click to expand...
Yes, and most of those requirements are met by that oil. So how is it superior to dexosR, if they are the same oil? It's not.

- Euro isn't superior.

Now, I'll demonstrate that just because, in the particular instance of Mobil ESP X4 0w-40 vs Mobil 1 Supercar 0w-40, you see something like A40 there doesn't mean that it's your que to put any A40 in your GM vehicle.

First, there's GM's recommendation. GM hasn't approved other oils to perform to their standards in their engines. As you can see it's a short list:

dexosR.webp


Second is this. I was in Walmart today and had a look around. I went in to grab some Gulf Wax to change O2 sensors, but I checked out the oil section while I was there.

Got looking around at Mobil's lineup, read through the various specs, and compared. Then I had the thought to look at others. I came across Supertech's Euro 0w-40. Meets all the strict requisite approvals; however, I noticed something out of the ordinary. It's an SN oil. Thought maybe this was old stock, but copyright on the label is 2024. Not old stock, and the current listing online matches.

IMG_20250516_144701.webp


Turbocharged Gasoline Direct Injection engines aren't uncommon. One of the features of these engines is the use of low tension piston rings. When API advanced from SN to SP, one of the requirements was reduction of risk of LSPI. LSPI happens on these TDI engines because the low tension rings are more likely to allow oil into the combustion chamber. Oil in the combustion chamber, high compression, and boost all contribute to LSPI. API itself says it matters.

To all those people out there who do have a TDI engine, and there are many:
A40 SP isn't A40 SN, but they're both A40.
MB229.5 SP isn't MB229.5 SN, but they're both MB229.5

- Euro isn't Euro.

What allows a particular oil to meet multiple specs is the formulation. Just because one brand has cross-compatibility doesn't mean that it necessarily extends to all oils for the listed specs. Not all A40's have the same formulation.

Stricter spec is not the correct perspective because it's meaningless as a comparison. The specs are strictly targeted to the application. That needs to be understood.

Post #4 asking about the application was the best response. When someone asks which oil they should use please consider their application in detail. It's important. Work from there. Otherwise, stick to the spec.

Euro isn't better. Euro isn't Euro. There's nothing more I feel the need to say on this, as the supporting evidence is sufficient.
 
Last edited:
Glenda W. said:
Welcome to the dark side😂. I don’t blame you one bit. On my Subaru I do 30k cvt services instead of lifetime….another one of my deviations from factory recommendations.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I've been on the dark side. We probably have more in common than differences, though the differences keep getting highlighted.

I gotta compliment you on the condition of that J35. I've never seen one so clean. Have you owned it the whole time?
 
siriusc1024 said:
Euro isn't better. Euro isn't Euro. There's nothing more I feel the need to say on this, as the supporting evidence is sufficient.
Click to expand...
siriusc1024 said:
To all those people out there who do have a TDI engine, and there are many:
A40 SP isn't A40 SN, but they're both A40.
MB229.5 SP isn't MB229.5 SN, but they're both MB229.5
Click to expand...

Your argument is that because you found an A40 oil without SP, Euro oils aren't better?
 
siriusc1024 said:
Yes, and most of those requirements are met by that oil. So how is it superior to dexosR, if they are the same oil? It's not.

- Euro isn't superior.

Now, I'll demonstrate that just because, in the particular instance of Mobil ESP X4 0w-40 vs Mobil 1 Supercar 0w-40, you see something like A40 there doesn't mean that it's your que to put any A40 in your GM vehicle.

First, there's GM's recommendation. GM hasn't approved other oils to perform to their standards in their engines. As you can see it's a short list:

View attachment 279665

Second is this. I was in Walmart today and had a look around. I went in to grab some Gulf Wax to change O2 sensors, but I checked out the oil section while I was there.

Got looking around at Mobil's lineup, read through the various specs, and compared. Then I had the thought to look at others. I came across Supertech's Euro 0w-40. Meets all the strict requisite approvals; however, I noticed something out of the ordinary. It's an SN oil. Thought maybe this was old stock, but copyright on the label is 2024. Not old stock, and the current listing online matches.

View attachment 279666

Turbocharged Gasoline Direct Injection engines aren't uncommon. One of the features of these engines is the use of low tension piston rings. When API advanced from SN to SP, one of the requirements was reduction of risk of LSPI. LSPI happens on these TDI engines because the low tension rings are more likely to allow oil into the combustion chamber. Oil in the combustion chamber, high compression, and boost all contribute to LSPI. API itself says it matters.

To all those people out there who do have a TDI engine, and there are many:
A40 SP isn't A40 SN, but they're both A40.
MB229.5 SP isn't MB229.5 SN, but they're both MB229.5

- Euro isn't Euro.

What allows a particular oil to meet multiple specs is the formulation. Just because one brand has cross-compatibility doesn't mean that it necessarily extends to all oils for the listed specs. Not all A40's have the same formulation.

Stricter spec is not the correct perspective because it's meaningless as a comparison. The specs are strictly targeted to the application. That needs to be understood.

Post #4 asking about the application was the best response. When someone asks which oil they should use please consider their application in detail. It's important. Work from there. Otherwise, stick to the spec.

Euro isn't better. Euro isn't Euro. There's nothing more I feel the need to say on this, as the supporting evidence is sufficient.
Click to expand...
I do scientific research for a living. I think you are confused.
 
edyvw said:
Good, we agree that you are confused.
It is not that we don't have parachuters like you often, it is that people who are looking for advice are reading this. Try some hobby: running, tennis, shooting, etc. This is not your thing.
Click to expand...
The advice lacks precision. Still more personal attacks from the scientist who should be able to easily logically dispel some parachuter. Well, where logic fails...feelings prevail.
 
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