Ethical credit card?

[Number_35]

Hey guys - As a Canadian gearhead, I have a Triangle (Canadian Tire) credit card. It provides good rewards. BUT, I was disgusted by this recent news story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/9u9102/senior_who_suffered_stroke_unable_to_use_credit/

I wrote to CT Bank on-line through their 'contact us' link expressing my dismay at how they'd treated this couple, and received this unhelpful canned reply:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your recent e-mail to Canadian Tire Bank.

Due to privacy and/or security restrictions we are unable to answer your question(s) through this form of communication. Please call our office toll-free at 1-800-459-6415, and one of our agents will be pleased to assist you.

Best regards,

Your Customer Service Team
Canadian Tire Bank
1-800-459-6415

I'm not impressed, and am considering switching cards. Are any of you aware of any ethical cards out there? I'm far from a social-justice warrior, but this just made me see red, and I'd like to send a message.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can provide.

 

[beanoil]

So they didn't care about their customer, why do you think they will get your message or care if you switch?

 

[Number_35]

Whether or not they care, I will no longer be supporting an organization that's not good to its customers. That's how the free market should work.

 

[Wolf359]

Credit card insurance is always a scam, never get it. I'd be happy that they're not getting their money.

 

[dave1251]

Your right free market should work like how you described. The issue is will this boycott gather enough support to force a change.

 

[Trav]

So we are assuming all the facts are being reported 100% accurately and there is something wrong with a credit card company not giving you information or discussing another customer account, correct? Get a grip on yourself man.

 

[alarmguy]

Hate to sound heartless but ...

If you borrow money from someone you have to pay it back
If you buy insurance, know what you are buying
Most of all, live within your means and dont borrow money from others, then you will not have a problem.

People who lend you money expect to be paid back.

 

[Wolf359]

When you need credit card insurance, that's when it's time to put away the credit card.

Spend 10% less than you make and you'll always have money.

Spend 10% more than you make and you'll always be broke.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by Number_35
Hey guys - As a Canadian gearhead, I have a Triangle (Canadian Tire) credit card. It provides good rewards. BUT, I was disgusted by this recent news story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/9u9102/senior_who_suffered_stroke_unable_to_use_credit/

I wrote to CT Bank on-line through their 'contact us' link expressing my dismay at how they'd treated this couple, and received this unhelpful canned reply:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your recent e-mail to Canadian Tire Bank.

Due to privacy and/or security restrictions we are unable to answer your question(s) through this form of communication. Please call our office toll-free at 1-800-459-6415, and one of our agents will be pleased to assist you.

Best regards,

Your Customer Service Team
Canadian Tire Bank
1-800-459-6415

I'm not impressed, and am considering switching cards. Are any of you aware of any ethical cards out there? I'm far from a social-justice warrior, but this just made me see red, and I'd like to send a message.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can provide.

I don't see much for factual information to say Canadian Tire is being un-ethical. The devil is in the details. Personally the idea of having insurance on a credit card debt is just plain stupid. Can you imagine the profit for the corporation offering this. And why would I want to be in a "pool" of people with an incentive to NOT pay their bills. It's just absurd.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't see much for factual information to say Canadian Tire is being un-ethical. The devil is in the details. Personally the idea of having insurance on a credit card debt is just plain stupid. Can you imagine the profit for the corporation offering this. And why would I want to be in a "pool" of people with an incentive to NOT pay their bills. It's just absurd.
They licensed their name to a credit card company, these sort of things happen. If OP doesn't want to support CT because they feel that their associates are unethical, then do it. Insurance companies seem to try to shake you off instead of paying you out so I can't say I'm surprised. The elderly often have moral and ethical disassociation with modern times, making them the juiciest of marks.

C tire is a shell of what it used to be, can you believe they rebranded Gray for their hard line tools at one point?

 

[Hall]

Ooooh, I was soooo mad, I e-mailed them....

Pick up the phone and TALK to them. Put your money where your mouth is and cancel the card. You can tell them why but they generally won't care. The credit card isn't really "Canadian Tire" in 99% of cases, it's operated by a bank or finance company that has an agreement with Canadian Tire to use their name.

 

[ofelas]

To answer Number_35's original question - I hear CAA is quite OK when it comes to relatively transparent CC's, as is Costco.ca.

 

[Astro14]

The story tugs at your heart strings - poor stroke victim, his distraught wife, etc. Looks like the reporters did their job, got you to read the story and get fired up.

So, the credit card insurance didn't pay at first. Then it paid.

That's the problem? It paid, but not fast enough?

What did the contract say? Did the wife follow the terms of the contract? File for the insurance?

So many, important details lacking from the story.

But you're outraged. So, the story worked.

Since the insurance was through a 3rd party, your outrage is misdirected...

 

[eljefino]

The closest thing you'd find (in the US) is one issued by a non-profit credit union. There's a method for members to get elected to the Board of Directors.

Even then, they would have a fiduciary duty to make money for the shareholders/ customers.

 

[Garak]

Number_35, sometimes one just has to watch the fine print. On one of my cards, I do have this insurance. It's a CIBC card. Now, there are certain things to keep in mind as to why I have this coverage and how I handle it. First off, I won't qualify for most of the coverage because I'm self-employed. I have the coverage because of the one time critical illness payment. I don't pay any premiums. I was taught a trick by one of the bank's people. As you know, the premiums are a percentage of the statement balance, not balance forward. This way, they collect money from people who won't be paying interest because they pay on time. I check online and pay that credit card in full before the statement date, rather than the due date. That way, I get a statement balance of $0.00. If premiums are a percentage of your statement balance, any percentage of $0.00 is also $0.00. If there's other fine print that won't let me collect, I don't care since I didn't pay.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Garak
Number_35, sometimes one just has to watch the fine print. On one of my cards, I do have this insurance. It's a CIBC card. Now, there are certain things to keep in mind as to why I have this coverage and how I handle it. First off, I won't qualify for most of the coverage because I'm self-employed. I have the coverage because of the one time critical illness payment. I don't pay any premiums. I was taught a trick by one of the bank's people. As you know, the premiums are a percentage of the statement balance, not balance forward. This way, they collect money from people who won't be paying interest because they pay on time. I check online and pay that credit card in full before the statement date, rather than the due date. That way, I get a statement balance of $0.00. If premiums are a percentage of your statement balance, any percentage of $0.00 is also $0.00. If there's other fine print that won't let me collect, I don't care since I didn't pay.


I don't understand why you have it then. If you can pay off your balance in full, you don't really need it. And if you don't have a balance and haven't paid anything, then maybe you haven't bought any insurance? Guess you have to read the fine print a little bit more. And if you're self employed and can't be laid off so you're collecting unemployment, then maybe the insurance can never kick in so that it'd be worthless to have to begin with.

 

[Garak]

The credit card people, if you can believe them, claim I am covered for the critical illness payout, but not for the balance protection. If I have a heart attack, stroke, get cancer, or whatever else is listed, there's a modest one time payout. I had signed up for the insurance many many moons ago, and then did exactly that - questioned why I had it. I guess I was paranoid when I signed up, and then realized that this isn't really necessary. So, I called in for more information, and that's what I got, assuming I can believe them; they also indicated that new sign ups don't get the critical illness payout because the insurance coverage has changed in the intervening years. Again, that's a lot of assuming they can be believed, which is very iffy with a lot of these "customer service" people. My main point in this is that I'm not actually paying anything for it, so I'm not deluded into thinking I've got some coverage that I actually don't and am paying monthly for it.

If I'm still valid under the critical illness payout, I've got essentially some free insurance. If I'm not valid for that, I'm not paying for the coverage (or lack thereof) in the first place, so it doesn't matter. The other lesson is that I don't have any of that coverage on the other credit cards. I don't carry balances at all anyhow, so even if I were covered, the odds of me claiming on the payment insurance would be so remote (critical illness payout aside). With respect to the original Canadian story in this thread, this is part of a larger hew and cry in Canada about these balance protectors, as they're often called here. I guess the UK campaign against (payment protector insurance in their little battle) them has finally reached Canada. As mentioned in the media a number of times, if someone needs insurance to keep things in order with payments when sick, it's best to have "real" insurance, and not rely on some expensive option from the credit card companies.

In fairness to the credit card company and the insurance company in this story, I'm not saying this is "nice" by them, but it's unsurprising. Insurance companies don't make money by mailing cheques without scrutiny for every claim that crosses their desks. I'm also virtually certain that any credit card in Canada would have some version of this insurance available, offered, and/or pushed as an upsell. One certainly doesn't have to sign up, but finding a credit card here where it's not possible to get such insurance isn't going to happen.

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted by Trav
So we are assuming all the facts are being reported 100% accurately and there is something wrong with a credit card company not giving you information or discussing another customer account, correct? Get a grip on yourself man.
The story was on the CBC's website. (Sorry, my bad, I see now that I'd linked the Reddit discussion rather than the original story. Duh.) Our public broadcaster certainly has a strong editorial bias, which tends to show up in not reporting certain things, or in emphasizing certain other things. However, what it does report is typically accurate. It's not like they've made this story up.

You're right, I didn't expect them to discuss another customer's account with me. What I'd like to see is them making a public apology to the people in question, and changing their policy to fully explain the terms of their insurance.

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Hate to sound heartless but ...

If you borrow money from someone you have to pay it back
If you buy insurance, know what you are buying
Most of all, live within your means and don't borrow money from others, then you will not have a problem.

People who lend you money expect to be paid back.

Agreed, but most of us have had various sorts of insurance (life, house, auto beyond the minimum required, mortgage) at various points in our lives to cover unexpected things. And agreed, if you're putting it on a credit card because you can't afford to pay for it upfront, you probably can't afford it.

However, the company should never have sold insurance to a self-employed customer, knowing that he wouldn't be eligible to use it! I know it's buyer beware, but I think the seller has a moral obligation to provide good information.

And yes, I like the 100% down finance plan. And I'm happy to buy used cars.

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't see much for factual information to say Canadian Tire is being un-ethical. The devil is in the details. Personally the idea of having insurance on a credit card debt is just plain stupid. Can you imagine the profit for the corporation offering this. And why would I want to be in a "pool" of people with an incentive to NOT pay their bills. It's just absurd.
They licensed their name to a credit card company, these sort of things happen. If OP doesn't want to support CT because they feel that their associates are unethical, then do it. Insurance companies seem to try to shake you off instead of paying you out so I can't say I'm surprised. The elderly often have moral and ethical disassociation with modern times, making them the juiciest of marks.

C tire is a shell of what it used to be, can you believe they rebranded Gray for their hard line tools at one point?

Agreed, CT is a franchise operation - the stores are privately owned, and me boycotting my local CT will not hurt their finance arm. Mostly I just needed to vent. I feel very strongly about bullying. (Fat unathletic geeky kid in a life long ago.)

I didn't know that Gray had made tools for CT at one time. I miss Sears and US-made Craftsman tools. I do buy tools @ CT if they're made in the US. There are a few.