Ethanol free vs. Top tier e10

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Originally Posted By: Olas
If your fuelling and timing can handle it, ethanol is better for power.

If you don't need that much AKI E0 is better because there's more gas in your gas.


Sort of.

The bad thing about E-10 is because the ethyl alcohol is used for the octane booster, there are less aromatics like Toluene and Xylene. The E-0 that is now available here in Waco does NOT smell like the old 87 unleaded (no ethanol) that I'm used to from years ago... no, it smells like AvGas!!
 
Originally Posted By: Wurlitzer
Your post neither makes sense grammatically nor in reality. Apparently, "you way under thinking it".

Tap water is cheapest, should I just not think about it and use that? Wanting to use the best fuel in my car, which I depend on, is not overthinking at all.
WOW the clueless Newbie.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
IMO, the only thing that EO makes sense on as a value proposition is for OPE.
In my situation, the only source for EO is a small town Valero station about 18 mi. each way from my house. They sell 91 premium EO for $3.99.9/gal. I can buy RUG in the $2.00 (or sometimes less) range.
It's not worth paying 2x as much for it.


Fascinating.

What language is this?

Ohioan?



Hit your seventh birthday yet, Troll?


Just because one person lacks a sense of humor on Saturdays does not make another person a troll.

Would a smiley emoji brighten your day?
smile.gif


EO must mean E0 or 0% Ethanol.
OPE I still don't know.
RUG is probably Regular Unleaded Gas.




Don't pretend to know me.
I respond well to those things that are funny.
I don't respond well to JERK.
However, keep on shoveling it.
Two out of three isn't bad. BTW, OPE is Outdoor Power Equipment.
Given your other posts in this thread, one would think that someone with the level of enlightenment you project would be abreast of such a commonly used acronym.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver


Fascinating.

What language is this?

Ohioan?



Hit your seventh birthday yet, Troll?


Just because one person lacks a sense of humor on Saturdays does not make another person a troll.

Would a smiley emoji brighten your day?
smile.gif


EO must mean E0 or 0% Ethanol.
OPE I still don't know.
RUG is probably Regular Unleaded Gas.




Don't pretend to know me.
I respond well to those things that are funny.
I don't respond well to JERK.
However, keep on shoveling it.
Two out of three isn't bad. BTW, OPE is Outdoor Power Equipment.
Given your other posts in this thread, one would think that someone with the level of enlightenment you project would be abreast of such a commonly used acronym.


Boy your knickers are really in a knot.

Its a forum...its a place where complete strangers talk shop.

If you let it get you so worked up that you resort to name-calling just for a good natured comment then I don't know what to say...maybe you can block me.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
If your fuelling and timing can handle it, ethanol is better for power.

If you don't need that much AKI E0 is better because there's more gas in your gas.

Consider your priorities and pick the right tool for the job.


Can you explain your position?

I have always thought it was the opposite... like what is found here: https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf


1 gallon of E85 has 73% to 83% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline (variation due to ethanol content in E85).
1 gallon of E10 has 96.7% if the energy of one gallon of gasoline. [3]


Or here on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

1.5 gallons of ethanol has the same energy content as 1.0 gallon of gasoline.

The energy content of 1.0 US gallon of ethanol is 76,100 BTU, compared to 114,100 BTU for gasoline. (see chart above)


What am I misunderstanding?

Thanks
 
Take this message anyway you want, Swifty:
I have a novel idea.
Since I have over 20x the posts that you do one this forum, you can feel free to discontinue the primer on how this or other such forums work. I do not require your guidance on how this forum or other parts of the internet work.
Go share your smarmy, condescending attitude with someone who cares.
It's wasted on me. I'm done.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Donald
TopTier. E10 is fine, and possibly helpful in a vehicle that goes through a tank of gas in a week or three.

It's less frequently used engines like OPE and boats where there can be issues.


For the benefit of future readers.

Ethanol attracts moisture. The longer it sits in your gas tank the more water it absorbs.

That is just one of the downsides to it. It also dries out o-rings and seals (albeit newer vehicles use more resistant materials). It also has less BTU's. It also uses valuable arable land to produce and drives up food prices (although this is often denied) and lastly, it is a great way for politicians to buy the Farm vote. Ethanol belongs in Brazil where there is a large waste bio-mass left over from sugar cane production.

In a Marine Environment, Pure Gas should always be used due to the constant presence of water.


That really only applies to OPE. For autos, not really a major deal since they have non vented fuels systems. Of course, if one leaves the cap off the tank or fills up in a rain storm, I suppose it could be factor. And I really haven't seen auto fuel system issues. Even my 1974 Pontiac Catalina got E10 starting in the late 70's and on up thru the mid 90's when it finally died of body cancer. Engine and fuel system were fine. Any modern vehicle, hard to make the case that all those fuel system components are going to be affected. Especially since OEM's use basically the same fuel system components between their flex fuel and regular fuel vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Olas
If your fuelling and timing can handle it, ethanol is better for power.

If you don't need that much AKI E0 is better because there's more gas in your gas.

Consider your priorities and pick the right tool for the job.


Can you explain your position?

I have always thought it was the opposite... like what is found here: https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf


1 gallon of E85 has 73% to 83% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline (variation due to ethanol content in E85).
1 gallon of E10 has 96.7% if the energy of one gallon of gasoline. [3]


Or here on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

1.5 gallons of ethanol has the same energy content as 1.0 gallon of gasoline.

The energy content of 1.0 US gallon of ethanol is 76,100 BTU, compared to 114,100 BTU for gasoline. (see chart above)


What am I misunderstanding?

Thanks


The energy content data you quoted are accurate.

The properties of fuel and how it relates to an engine making power is a bit more complicated.

In simple terms often an ethanol blended fuel allows for more timing advance and higher compression, which allows more HP from a given displacement. You do have to burn more fuel to make the power.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: Olas
If your fuelling and timing can handle it, ethanol is better for power.

If you don't need that much AKI E0 is better because there's more gas in your gas.

Consider your priorities and pick the right tool for the job.


Can you explain your position?

I have always thought it was the opposite... like what is found here: https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf


1 gallon of E85 has 73% to 83% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline (variation due to ethanol content in E85).
1 gallon of E10 has 96.7% if the energy of one gallon of gasoline. [3]


Or here on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

1.5 gallons of ethanol has the same energy content as 1.0 gallon of gasoline.

The energy content of 1.0 US gallon of ethanol is 76,100 BTU, compared to 114,100 BTU for gasoline. (see chart above)


What am I misunderstanding?

Thanks


The energy content data you quoted are accurate.

The properties of fuel and how it relates to an engine making power is a bit more complicated.

In simple terms often an ethanol blended fuel allows for more timing advance and higher compression, which allows more HP from a given displacement. You do have to burn more fuel to make the power.


However, most flex-fuel vehicles are specified for use of regular unleaded, so they probably don't boost the compression that much. And the advancing of the timing can mean more power with more fuel. But it's also more efficient when timing can be advanced - even at cruising speed. Flex-fuel vehicles typically have higher mileage with respect to energy content of the fuel when E85 is used. The hard thing to figure out is how much ethanol is really in there because there's a range of ethanol content allowed.

At the high end of power, the ethanol is literally adding oxygen.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Just because one person lacks a sense of humor on Saturdays does not make another person a troll.

I believe you are failing to realize your "joke" was a miss. Anyone who has operated a mower before should know that OPE means outdoor power equipment.

That being said...

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I don't respond well to JERK.

Just because a person has a sub-par sense of humor doesn't mean they were intentionally trying to be a jerk.

---

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
However, most flex-fuel vehicles are specified for use of regular unleaded, so they probably don't boost the compression that much. And the advancing of the timing can mean more power with more fuel. But it's also more efficient when timing can be advanced - even at cruising speed. Flex-fuel vehicles typically have higher mileage with respect to energy content of the fuel when E85 is used. The hard thing to figure out is how much ethanol is really in there because there's a range of ethanol content allowed.

At the high end of power, the ethanol is literally adding oxygen.

How much more power would a vehicle specifically tuned to run only E85 have compared to a Flex-Fuel vehicle?
 
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
How much more power would a vehicle specifically tuned to run only E85 have compared to a Flex-Fuel vehicle?

I don't think there's such a thing or even that it would be desirable. Since E85 has a range of ethanol proportion, it has to be able to adapt or else it might destroy itself via detonation.

In the end I'd think most flex-fuel engines probably run as efficiently on max ethanol (83% actually) E85 as a vehicle designed just to run on it. All engines these days have knock sensors and the ability to at least back off the timing if the onset of knock is detected.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
How much more power would a vehicle specifically tuned to run only E85 have compared to a Flex-Fuel vehicle?

I don't think there's such a thing or even that it would be desirable. Since E85 has a range of ethanol proportion, it has to be able to adapt or else it might destroy itself via detonation.

In the end I'd think most flex-fuel engines probably run as efficiently on max ethanol (83% actually) E85 as a vehicle designed just to run on it. All engines these days have knock sensors and the ability to at least back off the timing if the onset of knock is detected.

Oh, it's definitely a thing. True that it might not be desirable for most people, but I see it much in the same light as a supercharged car would not be desirable for most people as a DD. People use E85 tunes to increase power. It's no different than taking a car that runs 87 and tuning it to run (only) 91 or 93.
 
The problem with a tuned car for E85 is that not all E85 is 85% ethanol and varies quite a bit depending on supplier and seasons.

If you want pure gas for OPE it's easy to make. Buy some premium and add some water. The ethanol and water will separate from the gas.
 
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