ensure all oil is removed during oil change

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Not unanimous. I am one who thinks getting as much OLD oil out as possible is very important. Turning the engine a couple revolutions without starting it won't hurt the bearings or anything, but with some engines, losing the pump prime is a real concern.

The best idea is to allow the old oil to drain a long time, then just fill the engine with a low cost oil and cheap OF. Start it, drive it a bit until warm, then drain well, save the oil, and replace OF and fill with new good oil. I have actually done this before. It does really help for extended OCI's in engines that retain too much old oil.


Pablo, I can't believe that you are suggesting turning the engine over without oil in it! Sure, you could do it by hand, but most people will just turn the key and guess what? The engine will start. Kind of irresponsible to suggest something for someone that would likely destroy their engine.

I agree that getting the most old oil out is best; that's what an overnight drain is for (surprised no one has mentioned that). I've always just made sure the oil was very warm and waited until it started dripping and was no longer a steady stream.

 

[barlowc]

We still don't know what berky is changing from and going to. For example, if he's simply going from something like PYB to VWB, doing anything other than a regular drain until is a very slow drip (e.g. 20 second between drops) is just a waste of time and money and will make no difference at all. In fact, that'd really be the case no matter what the change unless he's got some kind of dramatic change in mind.

berky, what's in the car now and how many miles are on it? What are you switching to?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Not unanimous. I am one who thinks getting as much OLD oil out as possible is very important.


Please explain why?


Easy, for extended drains, starting with as much fresh oil as possible is very important. For 3K oil changes, probably makes no difference.



The maths just aren't working out for me on this one. If you leave say 6 oz of oil in a 4 qt sump, we're talking about less than 5% of old oil being mixed with the new oil. I've having a hard time seeing how this little oil could have a measurable deleterious effect on the various parameters which determine OCI. I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong, but I'd need some proof rather than "feelings", no offense intended!

 

[qdeezie]

A short OCI with the new oil would be the safest and best bet.

Another idea is you could fill your engine with 1/2 to 3/4 of the oil capacity your engine takes and use a cheap oil filter and run it for about 20 mins to an hour depending on how much oil you choose to use for the "oil flush". That would get you pretty close to a 100% total drain. The residual oil at this point would be over 90% new.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: qdeezie
A short OCI with the new oil would be the safest and best bet.

Why? When I switched from a) Valvoline SynPower to Castrol EDGE, and b) Castrol EDGE to Pennzoil Ultra, you're saying it would have been safer and in some way better to have done short OCIs? I can't see why that would be.

 

[bepperb]

I don't think starting the car for 5 seconds is going to increase the amount of oil you get out, and it certainly won't get all of it.

So not only is it stupid, it probably is worthless as well. Running the engine won't get the pooled oil out of the head, or get it from depressions in the oil pan. All you'll get is the ounce or two in the oil pump, which is really pointless since it's so little and you risk large amounts of damage in the process.

A much better option would be pulling the oil pan after letting it sit overnight. I'd like to meet the guy who cares enough to do that, and if such a man does exist I would hope he's be on this forum

 

[dave1251]

There will not be enough of the old oil to make a differance anyway no matter what brand switching is taking place. Just not a good idea.

 

[musicmanbass]

Just cuz I'm a little anal I like to dump about 1/8 qt in from the top after the oil has drained, and before I install the drain plug. I know it doesn't get into the engine and probably does next to nothing, but I like to do it and it's my prerogative! My hope is that it flushes out just a few more particles of crud and does a last little washing wave through the drain pan on it's way back out.

Usually when I do this, the first ounce or two still look dark brown/amber, then quickly lightens up to nearly the oil's original color. I only do this when I have a partial bottle of some cheap/free dino wasting shelf space in my garage.

 

[Malo83]

Originally Posted By: berky
How can I make sure I get all of the oil out of the system during the oil change? I am switching oil brands today and want to make sure I get all of the old oil out of all of the little tubes and crevasses. Does simply draining the oil really get it all out? Would it hurt to attempt to start the car (without it turning over) when the oil is basically empty to pump out any oil that could be hiding somewhere inside? I've never done that before has it just doesn't sound like a good idea, but wanted to check with the oil gods first.

Thanks!


This isn't Rocket science

just drain what you can and add the new oil

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Not unanimous. I am one who thinks getting as much OLD oil out as possible is very important. Turning the engine a couple revolutions without starting it won't hurt the bearings or anything, but with some engines, losing the pump prime is a real concern.



Pablo, I can't believe that you are suggesting turning the engine over without oil in it! Sure, you could do it by hand, but most people will just turn the key and guess what? The engine will start. Kind of irresponsible to suggest something for someone that would likely destroy their engine.



I never ever once suggested he start his engine. Please don't tell me I'm "Kind of irresponsible", when you really didn't read what I wrote!! I merely said a couple revolutions of an engine will not hurt it in the least.

 

[glum]

Even I don't do double oil changes, and I'm the mayor of Crazytown!

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: berky
How can I make sure I get all of the oil out of the system during the oil change?


Easy. Remove the engine from the vehicle and put it on an engine stand. Remove the oil pan and valve covers, then let the engine sit until the oil stops dripping. Turn the engine upside down and let it sit that way until the oil stops dripping. Repeat the process until no more oil comes out, then replace the pan and valve covers.

Reinstall the engine, refill with fresh oil and you'r all set.

 

[expat]

"I never ever once suggested he start his engine. Please don't tell me I'm "Kind of irresponsible", when you really didn't read what I wrote!! I merely said a couple revolutions of an engine will not hurt it in the least."

Unless, in doing so, you manage to loose prime in the oil pump, then you could find yourself cranking MUCH longer than you feel comfortable, before you get oil pressure.

I have had this happen.

Safer, would be to flush with new oil. But REALLY, unless you run your oci to with in a few miles of your oil becoming Toxic Waste what do you gain?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: expat
"I never ever once suggested he start his engine. Please don't tell me I'm "Kind of irresponsible", when you really didn't read what I wrote!! I merely said a couple revolutions of an engine will not hurt it in the least."

Unless, in doing so, you manage to loose prime in the oil pump, then you could find yourself cranking MUCH longer than you feel comfortable before you get oil pressure.


The problem with being Pablo on this site, no one really reads my posts. You guys keep taking bits and pieces......read what I wrote way above this.

Quote:
Turning the engine a couple revolutions without starting it won't hurt the bearings or anything, but with some engines, losing the pump prime is a real concern.

 

[demarpaint]

I find these threads interesting. People are willing to turn over, or possibly start an engine w/o oil to get as much old oil out as possible. Some of them re-use an oil filter for 2 or more OCI's. Some won't remove the filter to drain it for fear of leaks or making future removal more difficult. That old filter can hold up to 1/2-1 qt of dirty oil.

Shorter OCI's will keep the oil trapped in the engine cleaner too.

 

[berky]

Originally Posted By: barlowc
berky, what kind of oil (i.e. brand, weight, etc.) is your current fill and what are you switching to?


From: Shell Rotella T 5w-40

To: Castrol Syntec 0w-30 (the german stuff)

 

[expat]

"
The problem with being Pablo on this site, no one really reads my posts. You guys keep taking bits and pieces......read what I wrote way above this."

Yep, I'm Guilty as charged, I have lately been tending to just scan posts (including what I have just written and intend to post)rather than properly 'READ'.
Must try harder.

But I still don't buy that it's important, unless you REALLY push your OCI to the limit.
But why do that?

 

[electrolover]

any v8, for example will hold around 1 qt in the oil galley. if a man was so anal he had to get all the old oil out he could disconnect the ignition source and add 2-3 qts clean oil to the pan and spin it over to pump out the old oil in the galley and oil ports, then redrain. the cost would be two quarts of oil because your new filter is full now

but what is the point? unless your switching to an oil that doesnt mix with the previous fill(which i have never heard of) its a waist of time and money

 

[SilverC6]

Just change your oil a little more often.

That way you won't have to be worried about the residual oil being "bad."

On my son's RX8, oil in the oil coolers doesn't drain with the a change.

So I just change it using dino every 3000 miles.

I know whatever is in there is good YBP of fairly recent vintage.

 

[Pablo]

It's NOT THAT IMPORTANT. There I wrote it.

I'm just anal in that department. 1-2-3-4-5-6% used oil left behind? It bugs me, OK?? Our Honda manual actually says to change the filter every other OC. Holy poop, I had to wash my eyes out after reading that. Disgusting. I was like...."What the heck kind of company would make such a recommendation?"

Anyway, carry on. And no, don't ever start your engine empty to get the oil out.