there is a theory that an engine will last longer if you use a synthetic over a dino oil. Is there any truth to this???
Engines last longer with synthetic oil?????
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Patman
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I would have to say no. We've seen a lot of people on here posting about their high mileage engines that have seen nothing but conventional oil. And based on the wear numbers in the UOAs, synthetics have no advantage there (except in extreme cold)
My first answer would be no - the only advantage that synthetic oil has over dino (regular) oil is longevity (the ability to last longer). Synthetic oil is made with a higher quality oil so technically it is better - but in my opinion - not a whole lot better than the oils out there today. The higher quality base oil in synthetics allows them to be run out to 10,000 + miles (hence Amsoil's 25,000 mile oils and Mobil 1's 15,000 mile oils). Problem is - all oil gets contaminated (hence an oil filter) so regardless of how good your oil is - it all depends on how long your oil can keep clean before the oil starts harming your engine. This is why I am a believer of short OCIs (oil change intervals).
Synthetics also have a higher temperature/heat tolerance so they are a must in turbo engines / high horsepower(performance) engines. Example: GM's Corvette comes stock with synthetic oil. BMW uses synthetic in their cars.
Still, many cars have gone 300,000+ miles on dino (regular) oil. Many of the seriously high mileage cars seem to always be run on dino oil - one key - the owners changed their oil often (3-5k). My grandpa's minivan almost made it to 400,000 miles on 3-5k dealership dino. The guides inside the engine for the timing chain finally broke.
So - either use Dino oil and change it out every 3-5k OR use synthetic oil and use it 10,000-15,000+ miles WITH a Used Oil analysis to make sure everything is going well and that your car can handle it.
Either way, synthetic oil costs a whole lot more than dino (regular) oil. So it up to you to decide what is best for your car.
Synthetics also have a higher temperature/heat tolerance so they are a must in turbo engines / high horsepower(performance) engines. Example: GM's Corvette comes stock with synthetic oil. BMW uses synthetic in their cars.
Still, many cars have gone 300,000+ miles on dino (regular) oil. Many of the seriously high mileage cars seem to always be run on dino oil - one key - the owners changed their oil often (3-5k). My grandpa's minivan almost made it to 400,000 miles on 3-5k dealership dino. The guides inside the engine for the timing chain finally broke.
So - either use Dino oil and change it out every 3-5k OR use synthetic oil and use it 10,000-15,000+ miles WITH a Used Oil analysis to make sure everything is going well and that your car can handle it.
Either way, synthetic oil costs a whole lot more than dino (regular) oil. So it up to you to decide what is best for your car.
Does anyone have any evidence of large fleets (where they actually track operating and repair costs) using syns?
In my opinion synthetics are superior if you have a problem with either coolant or fuel dilution. Dino oils would probably oxidize/shear a little quicker than dino oils.
If your engine needs or requires a syn oil then an engine should last longer with syn oil.
The most commom use of syn oil in trucking is in the differentials and transmissions. There are others on this board who are more up to date .I retired 7 years ago.,23years working at a dearership.
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there is a theory that an engine will last longer if you use a synthetic over a dino oil. Is there any truth to this???
Which particular engine? And how long do you want it to last? These days, other elements on the car normally render the car inoperable/not worth fixing before an engine does. And if it does, it's rarely due to incorrect oil. Things are a little different in turbocharged engines, for example, where synthetics offer better resistance to coking under very high temperatures. But as was mentioned before, todays mineral oils come closer and closer to synthetics in terms of performance.
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i have a Buick 3800 series II supercharged
Patman
Staff member
I would recommend synthetic for that engine then, especially if you've changed to a smaller supercharger pulley for more boost (something I'd highly recommend, as I owned a 97 GTP and put a 3.4" pulley on it and it really woke the car up and didn't cost very much at all)
It is most important to pick the prover viscosity and grade for your driving conditions, within vender recommendations. After that any modern quality oil will do the job required of it. The advantage of synthetic oils, that may lead to longer motor life is as follows:
1. Faster flow when cold.
2. Better ability to keep dirt in suspension.
3. Better viscosity stability over time.
4. Better stability when run very hot.
Thus it is a first choice for turbo motors, especially those without water cooled bearings. It is a first choice for those living in very cold climats or those who run under a load in very hot high speed conditions. And finally, it is the choide when the operator chooses to extend the time and distance between oil changes, up to one year works well for many users.
If you don't fall into these conditions there is little evidance it makes and difference in motor life; but it can't hurt.
Richard.
1. Faster flow when cold.
2. Better ability to keep dirt in suspension.
3. Better viscosity stability over time.
4. Better stability when run very hot.
Thus it is a first choice for turbo motors, especially those without water cooled bearings. It is a first choice for those living in very cold climats or those who run under a load in very hot high speed conditions. And finally, it is the choide when the operator chooses to extend the time and distance between oil changes, up to one year works well for many users.
If you don't fall into these conditions there is little evidance it makes and difference in motor life; but it can't hurt.
Richard.
Would the use of synthetic oil be "better" for a DOHC variable valve engine than dino, or would it simply be a case of being able to run longer OCIs with the synthetic?
I would say if it was 10 years ago and one was comparing synthetics to a Grp I based oil, then yes, unless the OCI’s were kept very short for the dino. Synthetics had a … huge … advantage over the old Grp I’s.
Against a modern Grp II (SM/GF4), I would say no -- as long as the dino was kept to reasonable OCI intervals.
Against a modern Grp II (SM/GF4), I would say no -- as long as the dino was kept to reasonable OCI intervals.
If you read independent testing avail on the internet, FULL 100% Synthetic [APO] is better for your engine and need only change every 12,000 miles if not continually topped off during driving period. If you keep it topped off, 25,000 mile and filter change. You can read all about the advantages from the testing studies. You can save money using 100% Synthetic in nbr of oil changes over conventional types when taken to a quick change. Engine part wear is partically nill. You also might want to ask, why has Nascar been using since 1975? Even though you used to see Penzoil...etc, in the NASCAR garages they'd be filled with Mobil 1. 100% Synthetic oil has been used in Jet Engines for 50 years, wonder why? When Mobil 1 was introduced in 1975, Mobil recommended changing the filter every 5,000 and then complete change with filter every 25,000. Just some information to pass along to you readers. I change my Mobil 1, every 12-15,000 miles in clean driving environment. I drive my cars 150,000+ miles, 25,000+ miles per year, and they will have the same gas mileage when bought new. Been that way since 1975. Now driving a 2006 Stang GT. Wife's 2005 Buick SUV receives same treatment. Synthetic will gain some HP for you too plus a little better gas mileage.
FULL Synthetic oils are a no brainer!
FULL Synthetic oils are a no brainer!
wobble: I know you don't mention them by name, but your post sounds like an advertisement for Amsoil synthetic oil.
BTW,
to BITOG!
BTW,
Patman
Staff member
If you read independant testing done right here by our members, you'll see that conventional oils show just as good wear numbers as synthetic oils do. The gap between synthetic and conventional is a lot less now than it was in 1975. People are getting extremely long engine life out of conventional oils now too.
I'm a fan of synthetic oils in situations that call for it (extended drains, extremely cold climates, forced induction, racing) but more and more people are getting great results with conventional too. That's hard to ignore.
I keep seeing the point "except in extremely cold climates/temperatures". What is considered extremely cold? Are talking only people in Alaska in the winter, Antarctica or are we talking average temps for 3 or 4 months in the 20s and 30s, maybe dipping into the teens and single digits?
Patman
Staff member
Everyone is going to have their own opinion as to what is extremely cold, but IMHO, anything below 0F is extremely cold.
I needed a good laugh. Thanks!
We drive our vehicles to 200,000 + with that #@$%! dino and get the same results as you for half the cost.
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