Engines last longer with synthetic oil?????

[Triple_Se7en]

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there is a theory that an engine will last longer if you use a synthetic over a dino oil. Is there any truth to this???

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Only if you use the engine in extreme ways - in extreme temps. The biggest benfits to synthetic (when used correctly) is extended service and cleaner engine.

 

[ALS]

I had a Turbo seize at 247K miles. It was coked up from using dino and 3K mile oci. The engine failed at 282K miles when I spun a bearing. Well the new motor has 64K miles on it. I'm curious to see how long the motor and turbo last with 5K mile oci and a diet of M1 Synthetic and a maintenance dose of Auto-Rx. The new motor was fired up with M1 in the crank case. The new turbo was fed for the first 35K miles with dino. The last 64K has been M1 10W30.
1987 Volvo 740 Turbo wagon with a 2.3L I4.

 

[JAG]

There have been many good points made. I'll try to make a new one with a question and the answer. What often causes bore scuffing? Deposits on rings and pistons, not failure of anti-wear package. Deposits act like sandpaper and wear down the cross-hatching on cylinder walls. Then oil consumption skyrockets and ring sealing plummets. The increased blowby pollutes the oil at a higher rate. It's all a big chain reaction.

 

[wobble]

I am implying that today's LABORATORY independent test results state that MOBIL 1 is the BEST motor oil on the market. I am NOT saying it is the most cost effective oil to buy for everyone's application. But is the best for engine heat and friction reduction besides 100% full synthetic being the best in getting the oil up into the upper cylinders. Sears Auto charges me $50.00 per change every 12,000 miles. If I used conventional oil changed at Sears every 3000 it would cost me $80.00 or 4 changes to Mobils one. That is what I mean by "NO BRAINER" for the best protection money can buy if you have outside source do your oil changes. Does this make sense? Also, independent testing LABORATORIES say that if you use conventional oil, change every 6000 miles? Why? The performance level improves after 3000 and degrades after 6000. Happy motoring all!

 

[tigrpal]

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I am implying that today's LABORATORY independent test results state that MOBIL 1 is the BEST motor oil on the market. I am NOT saying it is the most cost effective oil to buy for everyone's application. But is the best for engine heat and friction reduction besides 100% full synthetic being the best in getting the oil up into the upper cylinders. Sears Auto charges me $50.00 per change every 12,000 miles. If I used conventional oil changed at Sears every 3000 it would cost me $80.00 or 4 changes to Mobils one. That is what I mean by "NO BRAINER" for the best protection money can buy if you have outside source do your oil changes. Does this make sense? Also, independent testing LABORATORIES say that if you use conventional oil, change every 6000 miles? Why? The performance level improves after 3000 and degrades after 6000. Happy motoring all!

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Let me take this one.

1. If you are not saying Mobil 1 is the most cost effective, why do you go on to make a point about it's cost effectiveness?

2. You gave no evidence for Mobil 1 being the best oil except for "independant LABORATORY testing," a common advertizing term.

3. If conventional oil is best changed at 6000 mi OCI why do you compare 3000 mi OCI to Mobil 1. It seems to me that two dino changes @ 6000 mi would cost $40 at Sears compared to one 12,000 mi change of Mobil 1 for $50.00 making dino more cost effective.

 

[MGBV8ROADSTER]

From and probably well out of date
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil.html

Choosing an oil can be confusing because everyone has an opinion. I have one too and it has changed as the evidence had showed itself in our driveway. Here is a comparison of four cars using various types of oil and oil changing methods. All four were driven in similar conditions by two people (my father and myself) with very similar driving styles. The last one is for an N/A engine, but it makes a point.

At 120,000 miles, our 1987 Daytona Turbo I got a new camshaft and followers because the old ones were shot. Also, the bores had a noticeable ridge on them from ring wear. This engine got whichever name-brand conventional oil was on sale every 5,000 - 6,000 miles.

At 100,000 miles, I had my 1987 Plymouth Sundance Turbo I apart and the cam and bores had some wear on them. The bores had about the same wear as the Daytona, and the cam was worn, but in better shape. This engine got whatever name-brand conventional oil was on sale every 3,000 - 5,000 miles (5W-30 in the winter and 10W-30 in the summer).

At 110,000 miles, I had my 1987 Dodge Shadow Turbo I apart and the cam and bores had almost no wear on them at all. There was some coking of the oil in the oil supply line to the turbo. This engine always got Pennzoil conventional oil every 3,000 miles (5W-30).

At 104,000 miles, I had my 1987 Shelby CSX Turbo II apart. The bores had NO wear on them at all; I could not see or feel a ridge of any kind and the bearings were in excellent shape. The cam was a roller cam, so it naturally had no wear (not a fair comparison). The inside of the engine was clean and the oil lines were perfectly clear. This engine got 5W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic oil every 3,000 - 5,000 miles.

At 240,000 miles (not a typo), my uncle had the head off of his 1985 Pontiac Firebird (2.6L V6). This engine still looked new. The bores and cam were in excellent shape and the engine runs as quiet as a mouse. It got synthetic oil every 3,000 - 4,000 miles. By 320,000 miles (yes, really), he finally decided to replace the engine with a new long block. The original was starting to get some rod knock, but was still using very little oil. That car is still running and is on it's 4th transmission....

 

[TR3-2001SE]

We use to drive our vehicles 200,000 + with that #@$% dino. They all died an early death burning oil like crazy from 130,000 forward. We are talking Toyotas and Mercedez Benzs autos with 3000 mile changes and auto-rx treatments. Drew99GT, You guys have not convienced me as my experience is different from yours. Yes engines last longer with synthetic oil ! Its a known fact for me.

 

[Drew99GT]

It's cool TR3. Sorry it hasn't worked for you. Maybe it's just luck on our part.

Bottom Line: you gots to do what works for YOU!!

 

[Cutehumor]

false. just sold a 92 mirage 134k, all on dino oil. 3-5K oci. however it consumed qt/2k miles. just lived with it.

 

[gedcruise]

You had a failure after only 247,000 miles?

 

[gedcruise]

I used to think that too. I was talking to a long-time Honda tech, who has his own shop. We were kicking it, and he mentioned that he used to re-ring mid-eighties Hondas, where the pistons would drop right out of the bores, and you could still see the factory hone marks, but the rings had gotten stuck, due to deposits. I noted that one could always use syn oils, with short change intervals. He said that in his experience, it would make no difference.

 

[dave1251]

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We use to drive our vehicles 200,000 + with that #@$% dino. They all died an early death burning oil like crazy from 130,000 forward. We are talking Toyotas and Mercedez Benzs autos with 3000 mile changes and auto-rx treatments. Drew99GT, You guys have not convienced me as my experience is different from yours. Yes engines last longer with synthetic oil ! Its a known fact for me.

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Are you driving on a race track? Or was this the 1970's? I had an 1989 Chevy cavalier die at 197,000 die on dino. But the engine was fine. The frame was bent. Also my Father In Law has an Chevy P/U that has 379,000 miles that has seen nothing but Quaker State 10W-40 since 1973 and it has the orignal 350. It run's like garbage but its 34 years old and never has has any major engine work.

 

[Pablo]

Turbochargers last longer on synthetic oil. I have no doubt on this.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

The last vehicle was purchased in the 90's. A toyota cressida run on Castrol GTX up till 2001. Did not do the job as far as I am concerned. Others where before the 90's. Maybe the dino is better now but I believe in using your experience from past mistakes. Now everything except the TR3 is on Mobil 1. Honda is at 170,000 and runs as new. Miata is at 90,000 and runs as new. I may convert the TR3 over to synthetic soon.

 

[ALS]

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You had a failure after only 247,000 miles?

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Yes, know Volvo turbo owners that have over 400K miles on Turbochargers as well as motors. One older gentleman I know has a 83 242 Inter-cooled Turbo that had close to 550K miles on it back in 2004. The motor had never been opened up and it still had the original turbo. I can not say what oil he uses because I have never asked. These cars and motors are at the minimum 250K miles units if taken care of. Well at least the RWD 700-900 series models. I know of a few 850's that are north of 200K with zero motor or Turbocharger problems. I also know a few that were history by 125K miles.

 

[carock]

If you are talking race engines or air cooled engines then synthetic wins, no argument possible. The issue of street cars having comparable UOA's has always puzzled me because the street cars I see look much better on synthetic when the engine comes apart. It makes me wonder how closely UOA's actually reflect real engine wear. It also strikes me as unrealistic where people assume that a regularly maintained car will not suffer major failures. I hate to tell you guys that it happens all the time. Shops are full of "reliable" cars that wear and break. In my opinion (uh oh...), synthetic oils reduce wear as evidenced by visual inspections.It is hard to put a price on reduced wear and reduced problems, like leaking seals. If a synthetic oil saves you a single repair it should pay for itself.I think a comparison between synthetic vs. dino can only be argued on a cost/benefit analysis.Tests that compare synthetic vs. dino wear in actual engine tear downs always show that synthetic has the advantage.Of course, these tests are always financed by synthetic manufacturers. None the less, their tests also match my experience so I have little motivation to doubt them.

 

[DragRace]

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If you are talking race engines or air cooled engines then synthetic wins, no argument possible. The issue of street cars having comparable UOA's has always puzzled me because the street cars I see look much better on synthetic when the engine comes apart. It makes me wonder how closely UOA's actually reflect real engine wear. It also strikes me as unrealistic where people assume that a regularly maintained car will not suffer major failures. I hate to tell you guys that it happens all the time. Shops are full of "reliable" cars that wear and break. In my opinion (uh oh...), synthetic oils reduce wear as evidenced by visual inspections.It is hard to put a price on reduced wear and reduced problems, like leaking seals. If a synthetic oil saves you a single repair it should pay for itself.I think a comparison between synthetic vs. dino can only be argued on a cost/benefit analysis.Tests that compare synthetic vs. dino wear in actual engine tear downs always show that synthetic has the advantage.Of course, these tests are always financed by synthetic manufacturers. None the less, their tests also match my experience so I have little motivation to doubt them.

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Very good post! I've used synthetic oil in all my vehicles,using Mobil 1 synthetic. I've since switched to VP oil.Point being,I've seen MANY motors tore down,and have torn down motors in street driven and race driven vehicles.All vehciles using synthetic have also shown better wear patterns then the ones that used regular "dino" oil. Cam lobe wear is less,bearing wear was less,cylinder bores were better,etc etc.

I dont care one bit,anyone on this board can knock the UOA's of synthetics such as RP,Redline and other sythetics that get ripped apart on here,but I'll guarentee you,that I'll never run anything different then synthetic oil. I've seen the differences with my own eyes,and they do not lie.It'll be used in my daily driven vehicles, and my drag car.

 

[gedcruise]

You do realize that I intended sarcasm?

 

[Leo]

I agree with JB. Deposit control is the main reason in my books where synthetics are better - not necessarily better antiwear characteristics.

I would hypothesize that if you took 2 motors, one with dino and one with synthetic, drove them 300,000 miles, they'd both be working A-OK. However my bets is the synthetic filled motor will probably be quieter and perhaps perform a fraction better because of the less deposits.

 

[androbot2084]

Pablo is right about turbos. I read an engineering report and it stated that 5w30 synthetic oils will give excellent deposit control in turbos even at extended drain intervals than will a comparable viscosity 10w30 petroleum oil. The report also showed that petroleum oils can give a turbo good protection but only if a heavier weight 15w40 or SAE 30 grade oil is used.