Engines last longer with synthetic oil?????

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I needed a good laugh. Thanks!

We drive our vehicles to 200,000 + with that #@$%! dino and get the same results as you for half the cost.




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I knew you'd be there, Drew...knew you wouldn't let me down.
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Now, where is Bill in Utah?????? I'm sure he'll be along any time now...come on Bill, we're waitin' on ya, buddy!

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Greetings!! This is my first to this forum (just found it today!) Regarding oil usage, I can speak from personal experience. I work for a large state agency that beats the #@$%! out of their cars 8 hours a day. Sometimes, these cars are driven at FULL-throttle for 30-45 minutes (or more), then forced to idle for sometimes more than an hour in the heat of California's Central Valley. The heat here is not quite as bad as Death Valley but were trying! On a daily basis, every car put into the field is taken from 0-60+, at full throttle, 10-15 times a day; every day. It's not uncommon for cars to go from being parked at the office (i.e. cold) to an extended full-throttle run in less than a minute. What I'm saying is, we abuse our cars more than probably anyone. Particularly the way any self-respecting owner who loves their car. (Even those who run theirs at the track.) We've had everything from Ford Crown Victoria's, Mustangs, to Chevy Caprice's. In 17 years I have NEVER, EVER, seen, heard, or read of even one case of an oil related engine failure- EVER! With a track record like that you'd think were using some super synthetic oil that maintains a perfect hydro-dynamic wedge between all moving engine parts, during all driving conditions at, all times, ...bla, bla, bla. We're not. Our oil is standard "mineral" (e.g. not synthetic) 30W or 10W-30 depending on the time of the year. The brand is the type you get at your local gas station. Nothing special at all! We run our cars out at 100,000 mi. so longevity isn't an issue either.

That being said, it's seems that a minimum protection baseline can be established using even 'average' oils in cars that get beat-on every day. However, I just can't bring my self to use an 'average' oil in any of my vehicles; especially the high-performance ones. Yea, I did a bunch of research, talking to several oil companies. As you might imagine, they all said their oil was best. (Just like gas companies want you to buy Premium because it cleans deposits better. Yea, right!!) Personally, I chose Mobil 1 in varying viscosities depending on what vehicle it's going into. I only change it every 7000 mi., or once a year, if it's in a vehicle that's parked most of the time. In my SRT8 Charger I use only what Mopar recommends, 0W40. That way, if anything breaks in the motor, I have given my pain-in-the-a$$ local Dodge dealer one less excuse for not covering the warranty.

M
 
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However, I just can't bring my self to use an 'average' oil in any of my vehicles; especially the high-performance ones. Yea, I did a bunch of research, talking to several oil companies. As you might imagine, they all said their oil was best. (Just like gas companies want you to buy Premium because it cleans deposits better. Yea, right!!) Personally, I chose Mobil 1 in varying viscosities depending on what vehicle it's going into. I only change it every 7000 mi., or once a year, if it's in a vehicle that's parked most of the time.




First off,
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As for your choice of oil, there's nothing "wrong" per se with Mobil 1. They've just left a bad taste in some bitog members' mouths with their seeming hypocrisy over the term "synthetic". But I don't EVEN want to get into all of that again.

At any rate, you can most likely use M1 to 7K and will do just fine. But in reality, the UOA's on this web site attest to the fact that you can do just as well on good dinos or synthetic blends under most driving conditions. Havoline dino and Motorcraft Syn Blend seem to be two of if not the big favorites here.

I encourage you to read a LOT...that's what I've been doing for the past year and have learned more than I ever dreamed about automotive lubrication, care, and PM.

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I have subscribed to that theory for years, and took two cars past 200K on syn, along with another on dino.
After several months here, I now wonder whether syn really helps my engines at all.
If you check UOAs, there is no systematic preference for syns.
So, any current API spec oil with reasonable OCIs will probably work fine.
OTOH, both of my Hondas have PP 5W-30 in their sumps at the moment, and I have another sixty or so quarts of syn in my garage.
 
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I keep seeing the point "except in extremely cold climates/temperatures". What is considered extremely cold? Are talking only people in Alaska in the winter, Antarctica or are we talking average temps for 3 or 4 months in the 20s and 30s, maybe dipping into the teens and single digits?



This is what GM has in the owners manual for my 2006 HHR.

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If you are in an area of extreme cold, where the temperature falls below -20°F (-29°C), it is recommended that you use either an SAE 5W-30 synthetic oil or an SAE 0W-30 oil. Both will provide easier cold starting and better protection for your engine at extremely low temperatures.


 
Yes, it's certainly true - but it has almost nothing to do with engine wear - and almost everything to do with a significant reduction high/low temp engine deposits. This is also why PAO/Ester based synthetic are wholly superior to Group III based products.

You will almost never see a "clean" engine that wears out prematurely....
 
There's a poster that goes by the name of "Lonnie" that appears to maintain a fleet of vehicles where he has scrupulously maintained UOA and OCI information that points to no meaningful differences in terms of measureable UOA wear metals between M1 and Chevron Supreme. So his fleet uses Chevron Supreme for most vehicles since it's more cost effective.

If you search the archives for "Lonnie" you'll see his posts--very informative.

Now for me, I'm more comfortable with synthetics because I believe they can tolerate a wider temperature range and somewhat longer OCIs without problems. I think of it as a bit of a cushion when I can't make a 3k or 6k mi OCI and need a few extra 100 or 1,000 miles, or I have a long road trip to make in 100F + temperatures at average speeds of 75mph.
 
Well I have driven an engine with 1.5 million miles on Dino with no major work. Just water pumps and accesories replaced. Admittedly it wasnt a Gasser or as light duty as a Passenger Car Engine.

Modern Group II or II+ car oils like very little matching modern Group III Synthetic (The majority of synthetics) or even Group IV in most engines given the proper change intervals for their TBN retention.

Comparing the 1970's Group I Dino to with the Garbage VII's then available to 1970's VII free Group IV/V Synthetic is not relevant to todays conditions anymore than the 1950's 1000 mi OCI.
 
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bop.gif
liar.gif
crackmeup.gif


I needed a good laugh. Thanks!

We drive our vehicles to 200,000 + with that #@$%! dino and get the same results as you for half the cost.




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I knew you'd be there, Drew...knew you wouldn't let me down.
cheers.gif


Now, where is Bill in Utah?????? I'm sure he'll be along any time now...come on Bill, we're waitin' on ya, buddy!

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Any time, any time. I'll chime in when the gas mileage on my Dad's truck drops below 20 highway and the motor comes apart from all the sludge and wear.
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Deposit control boys deposit control!!! If you can reduce the deposits in the ring pack area and on the seals you enjoy higher performance for a longer part of the engines lifecycle! So if the OCI and additive package for each type of oil is observed you should get long life out of either. You have a greater chance of maintaining like new performance with a synthetic oil. Now that we have Auto-Rx and Lube Control you could in theory use them periodicly to clean the ring pack area. This would reduce overall operateing costs long term and allow you to run dino oil for the life of the vechile. I do not think you need to use LC constantly though. I am thinking that it could probably be used every third oil change or something like that to keep deposits in check. You see where I am going with this? Now I have no evidence for this it is simply speculation on my part. SM/GF4 oils are a huge leap forward in my opion interms of deposit control but still nothing like synthetic!
 
I know we all love pictures!!! Here's some from my Pop's 1998 Chevy Blazer, 4300 4wd, auto trans:

1st, the odometer:
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2nd, the fuel gauge after about 60 highway/40 city driving all today (pop's is in insurance/financial planning so he does a shattas of driving):
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And the grand finale...........Avg fuel mileage:
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I'd say that's pretty good performance for the dead dinosaurs, if I do say so myself.
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In warm summer temps, the fuel mileage is even better, sometimes up to 27 highway mpg. I've posted that before but no one believed me. Oh well. It's the Rislone and BG Quick Clean
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Oh, the majority of the driving was north of Colorado Springs, CO. Uhhh, not exactly Kansas.................lots of hills including monument hill at 80 mph (steep).
 
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I'd say that's pretty good performance for the dead dinosaurs, if I do say so myself.




Now Drew, we ALL know that oil doesn't come from dead dinosaurs and decayed organic matter. It is produced *abiotically* as a product of natural geographic shifts and activity in the earth's crust and mantle. This is why formerly depleted oil reserves are filling back up. So we have a virtually endless supply of crude.

XOM doesn't want you to know this, so that's why I'm here.

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I knew you were Lee Raymond in disguise! Lou......Lee.........there's hardly a difference.
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DANG! Now I've got to re-register under a different name...what a pita.

With my $400 million golden parachute, I have nothing better to do now than to hang around bitog to see what everyone is saying about our base-oils-change-of-heart-thingie.

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In 17 years I have NEVER, EVER, seen, heard, or read of even one case of an oil related engine failure- EVER!





That seems to be the norm. Makes you wonder how this site has survived so long.
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Synthetics simply offer longer drains and better high temp/cold temp performance.
 
Even if nobody on this site has seen an engine actually fail completely due to their choice of oil, I can guarantee you that a lot of people on here had their engine's performance greatly diminished as a result.

Eventually all engines will wear out, and it'll begin in most cases by a horsepower drop and higher oil consumption. So even if the engine doesn't outright fail, I know a lot of you have owned cars that have burned a ton of oil. And the choice of oil was a big factor in why that engine was burning oil. I'm not saying you have to use synthetic oil in order to prevent this though.

All I'm saying is that even though we've never seen an engine totally fail as a result of a motor oil problem, it doesn't mean this site is not beneficial. Matching the right oil to the right engine/driving conditions is still going to benefit you if your intention is to get the most miles out of your engine as possible. For those of you that trade cars in before 100k, it really doesn't matter what you do as long as you don't completely neglect the car.
 
Pat, I agree 100%. It could mean the difference of a well running engine at 200k vs one that still runs, but poorly at 200K. Keeping the engine clean is probably much more important than anything else. This website has also exposed many of the brands I thought at one time were superior (Mobil 1), and shed light on others that I thought were not that good but turned out to be excellent! Havoline is just one example of an oil I never would have looked at until BITOG.
 
""Even if nobody on this site has seen an engine actually fail completely due to their choice of oil, I can guarantee you that a lot of people on here had their engine's performance greatly diminished as a result.""

Well, I am here to tell you that I deal with engine failures on a regular basis. The most simple of which are air cooled single cylinder engines running water pumps. They fail much more rapidly on dino vs. the old M1 15-50.

Then there are the marine performance engines. They also wear out quickly, with a lifespan measured in 10's or 100's of hours.

Then there are the auto engines converted to aviation use. They also wear out quite quickly.

Then there are the turbo 4 cylinder guys (of which I am one) where engines are expected to last about 25K when the best parts are used. Bearing life is the issue here.

Then there are the modern 4 stroke motocrossers. They have a life span that is incredibly short. Fast riders (near pro level) may wear out a 250F in as little as 15 hours. Valve issues are paramount here. Also, piston and ring life.

So, there is at least one member here who has made a few bad oil choices and seen the results first hand. ME!

Chris
 
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This website has also exposed many of the brands I thought at one time were superior (Mobil 1), and shed light on others that I thought were not that good but turned out to be excellent!




HUGE +1 on that.

I would have NEVER taken a second look at the stuff sittin on the shelf at Auto Zone.... you know...that "European Forumula Castrol 0W-30".... who knew how awesome that stuff is.
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