Engine temp on chevy small block

[Carburetor1]

Yup

 

[OVERKILL]

Yup

OK, I see two things wrong there:

1. The shroud isn't flush against the rad, which it needs to be, or the fan will just draw air in from between the two.
2. You have a flex-fan, which aren't great for air flow

I'd try:
1. Getting the shroud flush with the rad, see if that fixes the problem, if not then:
2. Get a nice clutch fan that will move the proper amount of air

 

[wag123]

OK, I see two things wrong there:

1. The shroud isn't flush against the rad, which it needs to be, or the fan will just draw air in from between the two.
2. You have a flex-fan, which aren't great for air flow

I'd try:
1. Getting the shroud flush with the rad, see if that fixes the problem, if not then:
2. Get a nice clutch fan that will move the proper amount of air

+1
I see a couple of additional things that I don't understand.
I wonder what the person who built this car did to the radiator core support. It looks like he cut it. It is missing the entire center section. Additionally, the radiator appears to be mounted in front of where the core support used to be (like the 6-cylinder that it likely started life as). Regardless, you have been dealt the hand that you have to play.
Yes, the shroud must be flush against the radiator for it to do any good. Yes, the fan is garbage. I had one of those fans on my Tiger when I got it and it didn't move nearly enough air. You need to get a proper fan. If you want to use a flex fan get one like this, and make sure that it is asymmetrical like this one is...

Summit Racing SUM-G4918 Summit Racing™ Flex Fans | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ Flex Fans with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Fans, Mechanical at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Carburetor1]

Yes the people in Pennsylvania who had it chopped out the section and the brackets for the radiator..then welded them on the front side. Had to make brackets to mount everything where it should be at. the old man who owned it had a shop restoring it for him and everything was garbage work.. from the wiring to shifter linkage to paint job. Very shotty work..I think they were milking him and he got tired of it. He only put 200 miles on it in 10years because of it all. But yes I'm gonna get the shroud flush and we'll see what it does. If it doesn't work then maybe a fan. But it idled after being driven for 10-15min and was at 215.. and the temp sensor is between #1 #2 spark plugs on the side

 

[Chris142]

That fan won't do squat! It has no pitch so it won't move air.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I'm glad to hear it's running better after adjusting the spark timing. It's too bad that didn't solve the issue though it should help going forward.

@OVERKILL is correct. Follow what he said in post #102.

 

[Carburetor1]

Yup I will.. Thanks again to everyone who helped in this situation it is much appreciated. I will update soon

 

[wag123]

Yes the people in Pennsylvania who had it chopped out the section and the brackets for the radiator..then welded them on the front side. Had to make brackets to mount everything where it should be at. the old man who owned it had a shop restoring it for him and everything was garbage work.. from the wiring to shifter linkage to paint job. Very shotty work..I think they were milking him and he got tired of it. He only put 200 miles on it in 10years because of it all. But yes I'm gonna get the shroud flush and we'll see what it does. If it doesn't work then maybe a fan. But it idled after being driven for 10-15min and was at 215.. and the temp sensor is between #1 #2 spark plugs on the side

You will get it squared away. It just takes a little knowledge, time, and money, as well as a little trial and error.

 

[Chris142]

A simple test to see how well the fan is working is to put a rag flat on the radiator. If it stays the fan is moving enough air to cool. If it falls off it's not

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

This engine is in a 56 Bel-Air and while driving the engine temp is around 190 but if left at idle when engine is warm it goes up to around 210-220. Is this normal or is there an issue with the cooling system. There are no leaks.
Also coolant has been changed within the past year. Any suggestions?

What kind of fan/fans do you have on it? Electric, fan clutch, flex fan? Is there a shroud?

 

[DuckRyder]

Agree with overkill.

If you can find a nice clutch fan that would be my choice.

Also not a CSB guy, but

is that radiator hose smooth internally or just a cover?

If we are talking 24 degrees total advance all in that sounds really low to me.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Agree with overkill.

If you can find a nice clutch fan that would be my choice.

Also not a CSB guy, but

is that radiator hose smooth internally or just a cover?

If we are talking 24 degrees total advance all in that sounds really low to me.

He's saying 24 degrees at idle.

 

[DuckRyder]

He's saying 24 degrees at idle.

That sounds high…

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Yup I will.. Thanks again to everyone who helped in this situation it is much appreciated. I will update soon

ALERT Your distributor vacuum line is connected to the incorrect timed vacuum port (for AIR pump smoggers). Take the cap off the driver's side port, insure vacuum at idle, then connect the dist vacuum hose there and cap the passenger side port.

with the advance hose disconnected you should have approx 12 degrees advance at low idle (approx 600-650rpm) connecting the vacuum advance, the timing should jump to 22-26 degrees - or well off the timing tab if you don't have a dial back to zero strobe light.

This along with getting your shroud moved should get her running a bit cooler and peppier.

- Ken

 

[Carburetor1]

ALERT Your distributor vacuum line is connected to the incorrect timed vacuum port (for AIR pump smoggers). Take the cap off the driver's side port, insure vacuum at idle, then connect the dist vacuum hose there and cap the passenger side port.

with the advance hose disconnected you should have approx 12 degrees advance at low idle (approx 600-650rpm) connecting the vacuum advance, the timing should jump to 22-26 degrees - or well off the timing tab if you don't have a dial back to zero strobe light.

This along with getting your shroud moved should get her running a bit cooler and peppier.

- Ken

What is the difference from one side to the other vacuum pressure wise

 

[Carburetor1]

What is the difference in the sides?

 

[RDY4WAR]

What is the difference in the sides?

With the carter style carbs (like Edelbrock), the vacuum port on the passenger side looks at vacuum above the throttle plates and is called "ported vacuum." The driver side vacuum port sources from below the throttle plates, reading manifold vacuum. The ported vacuum is near non-existent at idle so there will be no spark advance. The manifold vacuum port will show manifold vacuum and thus advance the timing.

Some people are deadset on using ported vacuum since most cars in the late 60s through the 80s came from the factory with ported vacuum. Late spark timing at idle helps heat the engine up faster, but also makes it overheat easier. The OEMs were concerned with getting the engine warm quicker, not making the engine actually run better.

Manifold vacuum is more realistic to what the engine wants. At idle, you have low cylinder pressure with poor air/fuel homogenization and combustion efficiency so the spark timing needs to be advanced to compensate. High manifold vacuum at idle allows the vacuum advance to give it the timing it wants. When you open the throttle, the manifold vacuum drops since there's more air in the manifold. That increased air flow means more dynamic compression and cylinder pressure with better fuel homogenization and turbulence which means a faster flame front requiring less timing. The manifold vacuum drop means less vacuum at the canister so the timing retards, just like it should.

If you look at the spark tables for an EFI engine, the spark timing follows the behavior of manifold vacuum advance. My Camaro with the LT1 has 6° advance up to 400 rpm (for easy starting) and then goes to 25° at idle.

 

[OVERKILL]

With the carter style carbs (like Edelbrock), the vacuum port on the passenger side looks at vacuum above the throttle plates and is called "ported vacuum." The driver side vacuum port sources from below the throttle plates, reading manifold vacuum. The ported vacuum is near non-existent at idle so there will be no spark advance. The manifold vacuum port will show manifold vacuum and thus advance the timing.

Some people are deadset on using ported vacuum since most cars in the late 60s through the 80s came from the factory with ported vacuum. Late spark timing at idle helps heat the engine up faster, but also makes it overheat easier. The OEMs were concerned with getting the engine warm quicker, not making the engine actually run better.

Manifold vacuum is more realistic to what the engine wants. At idle, you have low cylinder pressure with poor air/fuel homogenization and combustion efficiency so the spark timing needs to be advanced to compensate. High manifold vacuum at idle allows the vacuum advance to give it the timing it wants. When you open the throttle, the manifold vacuum drops since there's more air in the manifold. That increased air flow means more dynamic compression and cylinder pressure with better fuel homogenization and turbulence which means a faster flame front requiring less timing. The manifold vacuum drop means less vacuum at the canister so the timing retards, just like it should.

If you look at the spark tables for an EFI engine, the spark timing follows the behavior of manifold vacuum advance. My Camaro with the LT1 has 6° advance up to 400 rpm (for easy starting) and then goes to 25° at idle.

Excellent explanation!

 

[Carburetor1]

So with a stock engine which would function better...so if I hook to manifold it would get me my 22-24deg advance that I need to have at idle? Am I correct with this

 

[wag123]

ALERT Your distributor vacuum line is connected to the incorrect timed vacuum port (for AIR pump smoggers). Take the cap off the driver's side port, insure vacuum at idle, then connect the dist vacuum hose there and cap the passenger side port.

with the advance hose disconnected you should have approx 12 degrees advance at low idle (approx 600-650rpm) connecting the vacuum advance, the timing should jump to 22-26 degrees - or well off the timing tab if you don't have a dial back to zero strobe light.

This along with getting your shroud moved should get her running a bit cooler and peppier.

- Ken

Yep. I just noticed this in the picture. Good catch ARCO! The distributor's vacuum advance pot needs to be connected to the vacuum port on the driver's side of the carb which is manifold vacuum. You have it connected to port vacuum.
Carburetor1, I asked you if you were getting 22-24 degrees of advance at idle with the vacuum connected, you said yes. Well... you fibbed. You never checked. A word of advice, if you want our help you need to be honest with us.