Engine Start/Stop Vehicles

[JHZR2]

If you’re going to go through the hassle of stop start, why not just go very mild hybrid?

I get it in theory the start stop is simpler and more traditional, but you’re still relying on additional controls and complexities, without the assurance of having traction that a hybrid gives.

Ive driven manual and automatic start stop cars in Europe. It doesn’t bother me. What bothers me more personally, is my hybrid engine turning off and on when driving on the highway. But the hybrid produces more meaningful economy gains and enables energy recovery... yes, at the cost of complexity. But Ive seen start stop cars that have two batteries, and bigger starters, and at that point, bite the bullet. I suspect a very mild hybrid with a 5kW (tiny) motor could do great things by adding start traction, energy recovery, and the stop start capability in more conditions.

 

[AutoMechanic]

No worries. Since everybody knows everything and everyone got 40 years of experience on day 1, well people gotta run people down.
I learn from everyone here, including you. All good. Keep pulling those wrenches.

This whole thread, IMO, is kinda riduclous. A good stop start system, like the one in our Lexus RX hybrid, works fine and helps return good mileage.

I appreciate the kind words. The only reason I chimed in here is to share my knowledge. Like my automotive teacher always says “everyone knows at least one thing someone else doesn’t know and together you can combine your knowledge to learn more” and I always find that to be true. Heck for me being as young as I am in my first couple years of wrenching I have had the experience of doing lots more than most people get to do like my last day at my dealership I put an engine in a car I mean it’s not everyday the young few years experience guy gets to do that. I’m not bragging I’m just saying I wish they wouldn’t be like that because they always say to treat others the way you want to be treated. I lost my job at the dealership due to a customer complaint but it was the on all of the workers not just me so it wasn’t my fault I left but I’m looking for a job to continue my dream job.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I appreciate the kind words. The only reason I chimed in here is to share my knowledge. Like my automotive teacher always says “everyone knows at least one thing someone else doesn’t know and together you can combine your knowledge to learn more” and I always find that to be true. Heck for me being as young as I am in my first couple years of wrenching I have had the experience of doing lots more than most people get to do like my last day at my dealership I put an engine in a car I mean it’s not everyday the young few years experience guy gets to do that. I’m not bragging I’m just saying I wish they wouldn’t be like that because they always say to treat others the way you want to be treated. I lost my job at the dealership due to a customer complaint but it was the on all of the workers not just me so it wasn’t my fault I left but I’m looking for a job to continue my dream job.

A thick skin is like a Snap On flex head ratchet around here; it's great to have. I try not to buy into the crap. I suggest you do the same.
Please remember, my experiences are not the same as yours or anyone else's. All good.
Hang around long enough and you can rag on somebody too! Good luck.

 

[HowAboutThis]

I had a Mini Cooper rental with the technology. It is absolutely infuriating and worrisome. What happens when the system malfunctions and you are left at a stop light or in bumper to bumper traffic?

Same thing as the 1976 Toyota I drove when I first got my license that would flood out trying to turn left across 4 lanes of traffic. You scream and realize why your parents got you baptized and wanted you confirmed. We're so spoiled now.

 

[OVERKILL]

It just wears faster I mean think all that pressure on that button constantly versus turning a key it’s a lot more stress.

Unless the Incredible Hulk is hammering the button it should experience less wear (far less area of movement, no mass of keys....etc) over its useful life, so if it's failing it's not the result of the design but rather tested/intended duty cycle of the button. I fully expect my push buttons to last the useful lives of our vehicles as I've not been impressed upon by my dealer that they are a typical failure item.

 

[vindex1963]

My 2020 Kia Soul has it, I'm trying real hard to get used to it.

 

[OVERKILL]

My 2020 Kia Soul has it, I'm trying real hard to get used to it.

We avoided it on the RAM (wasn't included in Sport trim) and of course the SRT doesn't pretend to be fuel efficient so it doesn't have it. I've driven several vehicles with it and always just end up disabling it, I just don't like how it feels.

 

[Uphill_Both_Ways]

What’s wrong with push button start?

Even my Tundra has the equivalent. It cranks until it starts whether I hold the key or not.

Learned something new about my truck after almost 4 years!
So I can turn the key and let go. I will try it next time.

For what it's worth, my 2008 Impala has it.

 

[Astro14]

For what it's worth, my 2008 Impala has it.

You quoted me.

Then you put somebody else’s (Oiluzer) quote as being mine.

Please be more careful when quoting.

 

[javacontour]

I am honestly just wondering why everyone is always rude to me on here. I try to help then you say things and hurt my feelings I am just explaining why it would be an issue over an ignition switch we see lots more come in. My comment is very accurate think when you turn the key it goes back so it takes the stress off then you don’t put that stress on it when you cut it off because you go the other way. On a button you have to press it both times to do it so it wears faster.

Disagreement is not being rude.

I simply find your rationale lacking. That’s all.
Feel free to believe what you will and act on it.
When one makes a public pronouncement, do not be shocked when others are critical of that position.
It’s not personal, just the manner of debate.

 

[Skippy722]

I am honestly just wondering why everyone is always rude to me on here. I try to help then you say things and hurt my feelings I am just explaining why it would be an issue over an ignition switch we see lots more come in. My comment is very accurate think when you turn the key it goes back so it takes the stress off then you don’t put that stress on it when you cut it off because you go the other way. On a button you have to press it both times to do it so it wears faster.

Some of your posts do come off a bit “matter of fact” like, and you have posted about your bias towards older vehicle technology. That can give people the impression that you just don’t like newer tech and you’re bashing it just to bash it... But like Wolf359 said, I honestly think you mean well, and people here can be harsh.

 

[Astro14]

I understand that and I totally respect what they know and their opinions. On the Toyota training it even tells you that the push button start systems may have more issues than the keyed systems just they are used because of luxury and customer wants. Their is a two hour module you have to do just on them so they do train you well for if something does go wrong.

I appreciate your perspective and I’m glad you’re on the forum. Genuinely.

People will disagree with what you say, but they should be able to do it without being disagreeable...that is to say without being rude, or critical of you personally. The forum rules exist to allow polite, respectful debate.

In this thread, I think some of the disagreement was rooted in how you stated this (italics mine):

It just wears faster I mean think all that pressure on that button constantly versus turning a key it’s a lot more stress.

You imply constant pressure on the button. Constant. The button may be frequently pressed, and even pressed hard, but it is certainly not under constant pressure. The pressure is off the button between starts, right? Or are drivers holding that button firmly down the entire time they drive? Is that what you mean? That’s what the statement says.

So, the way you said it is, not technically accurate, and seems like hyperbole. Some other folks took issue with the hyperbole.

If Toyota’s training said that the buttons are more failure-prone than ignition lock switches, that’s great insight. Just say that first. Add that the training included the cause as; people are mashing those buttons hard... again, great information.

Communicating in purely written form presents challenges. It’s not like a conversation, in which a raised eyebrow gives you the opportunity to clarify, so, a bit of extra effort in composing your posts, to avoid confusion on the part of the reader, may help reduce the criticism you’re experiencing.

 

[Kruse]

Wow, this thread went all over the place.
Anyway, to get back on subject.....
My boss has a late 2016 (or perhaps a early 2017) Ford F150 with the auto start/stop. He takes that truck everywhere and it has the mileage of 135K miles on it to prove it. It's his business truck and pleasure truck. He does not disable the start/stop feature on it and wouldn't even if we showed him how to do it. His starter failed on him a couple of days ago. He had it replaced at the local indy auto repair shop with whatever their supplier gave him, an off-brand, I'm sure. We'll see how long it lasts.

 

[Astro14]

To get back on topic, I first experienced the auto stop start with a rental VW in Germany several years ago. Passat diesel with six speed manual. Great car, by the way. Really impressive performance.

But I about had a heart attack the first time the engine quit. Clutch out, in neutral, it stops. I mashed the clutch immediately and reached for the key to restart, and it fired right up.

I realized what was going on. Even so, I found it disconcerting and annoying. I left the clutch depressed when stopped to keep the engine running. A bit of extra wear on the throw out bearing to avoid this annoyance was very worth it for me.

 

[jeepman3071]

Disagreement is not being rude.

I simply find your rationale lacking. That’s all.
Feel free to believe what you will and act on it.
When one makes a public pronouncement, do not be shocked when others are critical of that position.
It’s not personal, just the manner of debate.

Of course disagreement by itself isn't being rude, but it depends on HOW you disagree. There are a lot of members here who have extremely valuable knowledge and experience to share. It's often very clear who they are, and their posts are well written. They are the reason I personally keep returning to the forum, as it should be. There are also those who carry the "holier than thou" attitude, and it's clear which members possess it, since they re-hash the same things in every single thread, and frequently personally attack other members. Sure we all have disagreements, but for some members it seems every single one of their posts is an attack on someone. I truly feel sorry for those people, as they must have a lot of insecurities in their life, and it takes away from other posters the valuable wealth of information this forum has to offer.

You can debate with someone without saying you wouldn't let them work on your bicycle or that their rationale is lacking. That adds zero substance to the thread, zero. You might as well go post on Facebook. There are a lot of older adults on here who act like 15 year old girls, and everyone knows who they are.

 

[jeepman3071]

To get back on topic, I first experienced the auto stop start with a rental VW in Germany several years ago. Passat diesel with six speed manual. Great car, by the way. Really impressive performance.

But I about had a heart attack the first time the engine quit. Clutch out, in neutral, it stops. I mashed the clutch immediately and reached for the key to restart, and it fired right up.

I realized what was going on. Even so, I found it disconcerting and annoying. I left the clutch depressed when stopped to keep the engine running. A bit of extra wear on the throw out bearing to avoid this annoyance was very worth it for me.

I had this same experience with a manual BMW F30. Drove a friend's car back to his house for him while he drove another vehicle and it was my first experience with start/stop. At the first light I thought for sure the car had died.

 

[Astro14]

I object to your characterization of fifteen year old girls...when my daughters were fifteen, they were thoughtful, polite, respectful young ladies...

 

[jstert]

i don’t like auto stop start. i laugh to myself when i see some folks applaud it for saving minute quantities of gasoline when their lifestyles cost them much money and/or generate greater load on the environment. but then again i’m a plain boiling water, instant coffee, splash of milk, teaspoon of sugar guy; no keurig pods, no caffe latte macchiato double shots whatever for me. k.i.s.s., cheers.

 

[jeepman3071]

i don’t like auto stop start. i have to laugh when i see some folks applaud it for saving minute quantities of gasoline when their lifestyles cost them much money and/or cause greater harm to the environment. cheers.

I think the purpose of it is more to help manufacturers meet CAFE requirements by squeezing out that extra 1/2 mpg it may save in city stop and go driving. Most of the people I know with it while having zero reliability issues have disabled it simply because they don't like the slight stumble when leaving a light.

 

[jeepman3071]

I object to your characterization of fifteen year old girls...when my daughters were fifteen, they were thoughtful, polite, respectful young ladies...

I applaud you for raising your kids to be respectful. I know when I was 15 I was respectful because I grew up with strict parents. Working frequently in high schools for my company I can tell you many current day 15 year olds do not treat people (especially teachers) respectfully. It is unfortunate.