Engine oil without polymers

[CarfriendXX]

Hello @all.

I wanz to ask if you know Engine oil without polymers? What do you think about polymers? Are these really as little to use as possible or are there very good polymers that degrade less strongly? Does dismantling always mean deposits or can this be counteracted with an early oil change?

 

[Boomer]

I hope that you realize that oil itself is a polymer, either naturally occurring or man-made like a PAO or GTL liquid. Other polymeric materials can be added to oil to control, for example, viscosity over a range of temperatures.

 

[wpod]

You are asking about viscosity improvers? a straight weight would protect better at the expense of cold weather starting etc.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Exactly I meant viscosity improvers, which currently allow large spreads of viscosity. What do you think about this? Do you also think that they should be used as little as possible? 0W40 for example, better 10W40 when I drive only in the summer?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hello @all.

I wanz to ask if you know Engine oil without polymers? What do you think about polymers? Are these really as little to use as possible or are there very good polymers that degrade less strongly? Does dismantling always mean deposits or can this be counteracted with an early oil change?

IMO.....

VII's (OCP, Star, etc) are a requirement for multi-viscosity oils.
The amount and type used are based on cost, the composition of the base oils, and the performance target (ie. OE approval, API classification, etc).
There are various types of VIIs which all have their own performance characteristics.
Long drain intervals are a component of most oil specifications so changing an oil early shouldn't make a difference. If the oil is not performing then the issue could be the specification rather than the choice of VIIs.

 

[CarfriendXX]

So one could and should assume that the improvers O are used that they can survive the interval without problems? Here in Germany, the VI is viewed very critically. Some even want to go back to the single-grade engine oil. I believe that the big brands like Mobil 1, for example, have this very good under control, don't it? Is it the case that the increased use of VI can prone to deposits?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Hello @all.

I wanz to ask if you know Engine oil without polymers? What do you think about polymers? Are these really as little to use as possible or are there very good polymers that degrade less strongly? Does dismantling always mean deposits or can this be counteracted with an early oil change?

VM are bad in my opinion. I am currently running 10W30 Quaker State full synthetic. It is a wonderful oil and has been calculated (here) to have extremely low-to-no VM. I chose it for a fuel diluting D.I engine that was destroying a quality 5w20 synthetic in 2K miles. All backed up with UOA and visual and olfactory assessments.
Unless you have a special engine build with very high power density or air cooled engine this 10W30 will provide a good margin of safety.

 

[CarfriendXX]

My vehicle is only moved in summer and has 310 hp from 2 litres of displacement. It is also a 5W30 or a 10W30 released in America, but there are almost none here on the market. Others, on the other hand, say that you can easily make a 10W30 with cheap VI, while with a 0W40 you have to take very well, for example. Therefore, they would also hold well. Hence my question, what exactly is right now?

 

[OVERKILL]

There are definitely different quality levels of VM's and different blenders and even the same blender within different product lines will use more or less VII content depending on their blending goals.

The goal of detergents and dispersants is to prevent agglomeration and deposit formation. Higher quality/tier oils will also use AN's and esters to provide the ability to clean-up deposits left by previous oils. So, an oil blended with those two components is more than capable of preventing deposits from happening, actually being able to make things cleaner.

There are VERY few VII-free oils out there. AMSOIL used to sell a 10W-30 that was also an SAE30, but they no longer do. HPL sells two monogrades, a 10W-20 and a 15W-30, but generally, there's no reason to fear some VM content in a quality properly formulated lubricant.

 

[CarfriendXX]

So I understand correctly that the use of a 0W40 or 5W50 does not form more and no less deposits than, for example, the 5W30 from mobile? I thought this could happen due to shear?

 

[buster]

So I understand correctly that the use of a 0W40 or 5W50 does not form more and no less deposits than, for example, the 5W30 from mobile? I thought this could happen due to shear?

It's not really that simple as others have stated. Type of VII used among other things within the oil.

 

[JohnnyG]

I think what most are saying above is it depends on the brand, certifications , and quality of the oil.
Since I've also heard of these issues for about 20 years now, I thought oil producers would have this problem solved. That does not appear to be the case from the replies above.
Modern engine designs also put much more heat on the pistons due to turbo charging and ring location on the piston. That can't help.

I'm personally hoping that the Ravenol PAO content and additive design addresses my concerns, but have no way of knowing that. It's also one factor that I considered when moving from a 0W-40 to a 5W-40. May not make much difference, but I felt it was a good choice.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

So one could and should assume that the improvers O are used that they can survive the interval without problems? Here in Germany, the VI is viewed very critically. Some even want to go back to the single-grade engine oil. I believe that the big brands like Mobil 1, for example, have this very good under control, don't it? Is it the case that the increased use of VI can prone to deposits?

Theoretically they should all survive the interval required by the automaker. Some companies formulate their oils to perform better than the requirements of certification. Mobil 1 is typically viewed as one of those companies.

Yes VIIs will eventually contribute to the formation of deposits but of course the important issue is when. This is why oil certs are important if you intend on going the full interval recommended by the automaker. The consumer is putting faith in the automaker.

Some people believe that some automakers purposely choose performance requirements which encourage* replacement of the vehicle within 160k km or after the expiration of the warranty period.

*expensive repairs on oil related components such as bearings, VVT system etc.

 

[kschachn]

It's not really that simple as others have stated. Type of VII used among other things within the oil.

Yes and the base stock composition is another.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Thank you for your comments. Ravenol writes a lot in the data sheet, but a lot of oils with a large loss of viscosity stand out, especially what their technology is supposed to prevent. I have noticed RUP 5W40 several times, so I wonder if much is just marketing. I have also trusted in mobil 1 for years and never really get away from it. Which engine oil do you think is the most stable?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

So I understand correctly that the use of a 0W40 or 5W50 does not form more and no less deposits than, for example, the 5W30 from mobile? I thought this could happen due to shear?

The question is when it happens. Take M1 ESP 0w40 and M1 ESP 5w30. The 5w30 has less VM but both meet Mercedes Benz 229.51.

 

[buster]

I remember one of the XOM engineers saying there were 18 total components that went into a quart of Mobil 1. An oil is as good as the sum of its parts.

Hypothetical, you could have an oil with the best base oil in the world but if everything else is subpar then you're not going to get a top quality oil.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Thank you for your comments. Ravenol writes a lot in the data sheet, but a lot of oils with a large loss of viscosity stand out, especially what their technology is supposed to prevent. I have noticed RUP 5W40 several times, so I wonder if much is just marketing. I have also trusted in mobil 1 for years and never really get away from it. Which engine oil do you think is the most stable?

I've read Ravenol mention that they limit the amount of VII's used but I don't know if that's just advertising because I assume everyone uses as little VII's as they can. Mobil 1 is a well respected if not the top brand in the US. Ravenol has a very small market presence due to importation cost. Probably similar to Redline and Amsoil in Germany.

Personally I look for oils which meet a large number of oil certs. For example I'd choose an oil which meets 229.51, LL04, and C30 over an oil which just meets LL04.

 

[CarfriendXX]

I think W40 is a Little Bit too much for my Engine. Only API SN Plus ( 0W40 ESP ) is a good sign for the 0W40. But the best Choice would be the 5W30 i think.

 

[CarfriendXX]

Amsoil reads very well in the data sheet, but it has no official approvals and is therefore out of the question for me. At Ravenol, I have read several analyses in the forum, I think I can claim that it does not perform miracles or does not perform better than other oils if you want to consult the analyses. I did not observe strong viscosity stability!